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Old 28th June 2018, 20:27   #51561  |  Link
huhn
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if your PQ curve is incorrect with a proper SDR calibration than the calibration is not the problem it'S the conversation.

so changing the calibration to get better PQ is the wrong way to look at it what you should look at is the conversation.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:34   #51562  |  Link
mytbyte
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
if your PQ curve is incorrect with a proper SDR calibration than the calibration is not the problem it'S the conversation.

so changing the calibration to get better PQ is the wrong way to look at it what you should look at is the conversation.
OK. So you think MadVR's implementation of BT.2390 may be wrong? I found the previous implementation of fixing 100 nits as difuse white didn't quite work. (far from bashing madshi, he's doing a devine job)
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:34   #51563  |  Link
Manni
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I asked, no reply so far. Why do you think 2.4 gamma is recommended, i.e. why does it matter any if we can select the gamma a display is calibrated to in MadVR?
You can pick any gamma you want with MadVR, but with a standalone player gamma 2.4 is recommended as it’s the likely target for the conversion.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:52   #51564  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
OK. So you think MadVR's implementation of BT.2390 may be wrong? I found the previous implementation of fixing 100 nits as difuse white didn't quite work. (far from bashing madshi, he's doing a devine job)
there is far more than one type of HDR conversation in madVR and most important it is not a "simple" bt 2390 conversation.
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Old 28th June 2018, 21:41   #51565  |  Link
mytbyte
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there is far more than one type of HDR conversation in madVR and most important it is not a "simple" bt 2390 conversation.
@huhn: BT.2390 standardizes the mapping AFAIK, and there are only 2 more options to choose from for tone mapping, "clipping" and "arve curve", the latter I'm not familiar with...and I really don't like the cliping approach even if the rest of the curve is prefect
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Old 28th June 2018, 21:52   #51566  |  Link
huhn
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the "fix too bright..." will have some effect on the gamma curve.
i don't see a way to dynamical reduce luminance without changing the gamma. but obviously not sure how it works.
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Old 28th June 2018, 22:12   #51567  |  Link
Polopretress
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Hello.
I am not sure it is the best place to discuss on evolution request and if there is a more situable/dedicated area, please let me know.

The subject is linked to the syntax used in the profile rules to execute an external program when a profile is activated.
The goal is to launch a programm depending of the aspect ratio AR of the movie.
This program will modify the position of the mask of the screen to fit the aspect ratio of the movie.

Today , with the actual behaviour, is it possible to add a variable in argument with the program to execute. This variable would be , of course, the value of the numerical parameter AR

If it is possible, what is the correct syntax ? for example the line command to execute could be : c:\mask.exe AR or c:\mask.exe Value(AR)
If it not possible today, is there a possibility to implement such behaviour to be able to use some numerical value managed by madVR into an external program ?

Last edited by Polopretress; 28th June 2018 at 22:16.
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Old 28th June 2018, 22:14   #51568  |  Link
mytbyte
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the "fix too bright..." will have some effect on the gamma curve.
i don't see a way to dynamical reduce luminance without changing the gamma. but obviously not sure how it works.
Will check this out...I mean, what I'm already getting is probably better than many "HDR" TVs...
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Old 28th June 2018, 22:37   #51569  |  Link
huhn
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it'S clearly intentional and more improvements are planned.
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Old 29th June 2018, 00:57   #51570  |  Link
veggav
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Today I took a few hours, the Godfather Blu-ray and played it on the OPPO 103 and MadVR.

I tried every upscaling shader and ended up using NGU AA very high.

Still, the OPPO seemed better with less noise.
But I think I found a way to make both images identical, there's a noise reduction setting on nvidia control panel, if you set it to 30~50% the sharpned grain by MadVR becomes less noticeable and the noise patterns are almost identical.

I know the newest MadVR have denoise feature but since I'm using Jriver and I use BD and UHD BD menus I can't update.
Tried MadMax UHD recently with the newest MadVR and JRiver and there were subtitles only if the pop up menu was open.
(not blaming MadVR, just commenting).

I would like to ask you, since MadVR is doing all the upscaling do you guys use Cinema mode with your display?
I believe Game or Graphics/PC mode would give you a more raw image but since MadVR is dealing with it, is there a point in using it?
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Old 29th June 2018, 01:10   #51571  |  Link
huhn
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the video settings from nvidia are not supposed to work with madVR outside of DXVA scaling.
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Old 29th June 2018, 01:44   #51572  |  Link
veggav
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Hum.. maybe placebo effect? It's possible it's was a few hours going back and forth.
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Old 29th June 2018, 01:45   #51573  |  Link
Asmodian
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I believe Game or Graphics/PC mode would give you a more raw image but since MadVR is dealing with it, is there a point in using it?
Because madVR is dealing with it you want to use a PC more more. Using Cinema mode destroys much of the quality benefit of madVR's high quality chroma upscaling and dithering. Your display gets the data after madVR.

(this is assuming Cinema mode does its processing in 4:2:2 while PC is 4:4:4 or RGB, which is common)
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Old 29th June 2018, 01:46   #51574  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
@huhn: BT.2390 standardizes the mapping AFAIK, and there are only 2 more options to choose from for tone mapping, "clipping" and "arve curve", the latter I'm not familiar with...and I really don't like the cliping approach even if the rest of the curve is prefect
The BT.2390 curve is converted to an SDR gamma curve, so you are really attempting to track an SDR gamma curve with an input that is too bright.
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Old 29th June 2018, 01:49   #51575  |  Link
Warner306
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Hum.. maybe placebo effect? It's possible it's was a few hours going back and forth.
Noise with madVR's upscaling has been mentioned a few times recently. It is surprising the Oppo is less sharp or it is using some type of denoising filter. The HTPC shouldn't be creating noise not found in the source. Have you tried sending a limited range signal instead of a full range signal to see if your display is doing a poor RGB conversion? Combining NGU Sharp with the free version of reduce compression artifacts can sometimes help but will soften titles with film grain.

Last edited by Warner306; 29th June 2018 at 01:51.
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Old 29th June 2018, 01:56   #51576  |  Link
veggav
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Because madVR is dealing with it you want to use a PC more more. Using Cinema mode destroys much of the quality benefit of madVR's high quality chroma upscaling and dithering. Your display gets the data after madVR.

(this is assuming Cinema mode does its processing in 4:2:2 while PC is 4:4:4 or RGB, which is common)
The text is way more visible in graphics mode compared to cinema but I'm not sure if chroma subsampling is happening here.
On my previews TV when 4:2:2 mode were on I could barely see the text, so I'm not enterily sure.

https://ibb.co/ges2n8
https://ibb.co/cYvcLT

crap cellphone pictures from the screen but I believe it's possible to have an idea.
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Old 29th June 2018, 02:37   #51577  |  Link
huhn
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TV with heavy sharpening can kind of hide chroma subsampling on test pattern.

this is pretty obvious.
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Old 29th June 2018, 02:37   #51578  |  Link
Asmodian
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ges2n8 looks like 4:2:2 to me.
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Old 29th June 2018, 02:44   #51579  |  Link
veggav
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TV with heavy sharpening can kind of hide chroma subsampling on test pattern.

this is pretty obvious.
The sharpness goes from 0 to 100, it's on default position here: 50.
That's what is recommended by rtings review of the Sony 900E.

Actually, setting sharpness is quite dificult to do with 4k because you can't spot on the right point where noise starts to be added.

I'll stick with graphics/game mode from now on.
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Old 29th June 2018, 03:29   #51580  |  Link
huhn
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sony neutral is usually at 50%.

and no offence but i have a hard time to believe/trust your noise claims.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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