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Old 16th July 2020, 21:56   #1081  |  Link
nussman
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@huhn already said „yes thats true“, but its pointless without active development.
If its „easy to fix“ then just do it?
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Old 18th July 2020, 02:17   #1082  |  Link
huhn
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if i understand it correctly madVR is the issue here.

but we haven't even confirmed if that's the issue here.

the subtitle overhead is around 2 ms or something like that GPU performance doesn't seem to matter here.
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Old 19th July 2020, 19:26   #1083  |  Link
onur
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@huhn
the subtitle overhead makes a big difference in 4K.

@nussman - MadVR is closed source.
i looked at the XySubFilter Source - and i thing it cannot be fixed in XySubFilter.
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Old 19th July 2020, 19:50   #1084  |  Link
huhn
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subtitle rendering in it self is a major problem for xy subfilter at uhd but that'S not related to the performance issue with not rendering subtitle and still loosing performance.
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Old 19th July 2020, 22:41   #1085  |  Link
onur
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@huhn
XySubFilter is setting subtitle to null correctly.
i think the problem is in MadVR - starting a Surface to mix all the Subtitles without recognizing that they got all empty.
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Old 17th August 2020, 19:14   #1086  |  Link
TheGameMaster
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I don't know what happened, but External subs are not loading using XySubfilter. It works for embedded subs, but not external ones. I am using MPC-BE with LAV, MadVr, and ffdshow tryouts. I've tried installing the "stable" versions of these as well as the newest updated versions, and on different machines. I have XySubfilter set as the subfilter in MPC-BE, and have it loading in External filters (along with the others), and disabled all the filters built into MPC-BE. So I am not sure why it won't load external subs. I check the directory setting, etc. I'm at a loss. I have to switch between XySubfilter to the internal MPC-BE filter in order to watch something with external subs. Any ideas?
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Old 17th August 2020, 19:31   #1087  |  Link
huhn
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my first idea would be to disable ffdshow.
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Old 17th August 2020, 20:32   #1088  |  Link
TheGameMaster
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I only use ffdshow tryouts for audio decoding and post-processing. It has nothing to do with video. Lav audio has opus, alac, and tak that ffdshow does not have. I disable the rest in lav audio. Lav audio, if using opus for example, will then send the output pcm to ffdshow processor before being send to "anyfilter" which goes to directshow windows atmos for home theater. ffdshow decoder will send raw formats directly to the receiver, except those that can't be decoded on the receiver (AAC primarily), which then are sent to "anyfilter" by default, which converts to pcm and goes over the ffdshow processor. You can set it to go to "DirectShow" instead of "anyfilter" and bypass ffdshow processor and send it to windows atoms for home theater directly. That is how I had it set. When I switched it back to "anyfilter", the subs came back. Weird. Not sure why that is, since it has nothing to do with video. I must have something to do with how the directshow filters stack?
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Old 17th August 2020, 23:40   #1089  |  Link
clsid
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You may need to add XySubFilterAutoLoader to the external filters list in MPC-BE and increase its merit.
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Old 18th August 2020, 11:13   #1090  |  Link
amayra
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why this is not dead yet ?
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Old 18th August 2020, 21:45   #1091  |  Link
clsid
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Because apparently there are lots of online tutorials written by dumb people that recommend it
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Old 19th August 2020, 00:24   #1092  |  Link
huhn
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you know a better alternative?
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Old 19th August 2020, 04:41   #1093  |  Link
ryrynz
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Probably not. Also aren't internal subtitle renderers for HC/BE & clones mostly based off this anyway?
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Old 19th August 2020, 06:49   #1094  |  Link
huhn
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they both are based on vsfilter but performance differences become less and less over the years but there are very simple things where xy subfilter is simple unchallenged at AFAIK that's the "that's the new subtitle interface" and things you can only do with it like calibration.
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Old 19th August 2020, 10:02   #1095  |  Link
ryrynz
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Doesn't seem to dumb to be recommended it, especially if used with MadVR. I think the only real issue is its not supported or in active development. Maybe another project clsid can keep alive?
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Old 19th August 2020, 10:21   #1096  |  Link
clsid
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The XY stuff is based on ISR/VSFilter, not the other way around. The new interface is just a way to mimic the main benefit of ISR compared to VSFilter, which is processing subs separately instead of having a filter in between the video decoder and renderer. That means no issues with DXVA, and no limitations regarding rendering resolution.

These modified filters used to be faster than ISR many years ago, but that difference is insignificant nowadays due to improvements in ISR.

@huhn, what do you mean with calibration? The matrix/level options? If you have any examples where ISR needs adjustment, then maybe similar options can be added for that.

@ryrynz, I saw several people lately who had performance issues with XySubFilter and madVR, that disappeared when switching to ISR. So the assumption that madVR likes XySubFilter better is wrong.
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Old 19th August 2020, 15:34   #1097  |  Link
huhn
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i'm talking 3D LUTs gamma correction and such these are only properly doable with the new interface AFAIK.

ISR and XY subfilter performance issue come mostly from the rendering resolution by default ISR isn't doing 4K but xy subfilter is and vsfilter is terrible for high resolution.
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Old 19th August 2020, 16:13   #1098  |  Link
clsid
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That is also doable with ISR.

ISR can render at 4k resolution. It defaults to the displayed video size. It also has an option to maximize the texture size to a specified resolution if desired for performance reasons.

MPC-HC ISR might even get an option to use libass for rendering. Code for that is nearly ready.
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Old 19th August 2020, 16:42   #1099  |  Link
huhn
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trust me you don't want to render ass subtitles at 4K pretty much ever.

even libass has serious issues with it. it was not a complain that ISR isn't rendering at 4K by default is a great feature and i would actually say render at a "low" resolution just to prevent issues is a good thing 1080p should be fine.

i'm personally switching between xy subfilter and assfilter mod. and as long as the ISR isn't using the new subtitle interface i can't switch i would be better of with xy vsfilter. i'm soon going to switch to bt 2020 gamut mapping 3D LUT calibration. without color corrected subtitles the image will be unusable.

just for tone mapping you will need the new interface. it's not an issue yet but HDR "will" show up with ASS subs and the new interface can handle this already.
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