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Old 11th May 2015, 23:10   #29701  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Another issue: LumaSharpen doesn't seem to be active if strength isn't 1 or higher.
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Old 11th May 2015, 23:59   #29702  |  Link
Moony349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
It even tells you this in the second Chroma line.

First, 4:2:0 Chroma is upscaled to 4:4:4/RGB using your selected chroma upscaling algorithm. Then image doubling is used for Luma, and the chroma is upscaled further using Catmull-Rom AR.
Thanks!

I didn't quite understand the two stop process; now it makes sense.
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Old 12th May 2015, 00:20   #29703  |  Link
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madshi, thank you for a prompt response regarding my inquiries. madVR 0.88.4 is not faster for me in regards to Image Doubling and Quadrupling than madVR 0.88.2. I changed Image Upscaling from Jinc 3 tap + AR to Lanczos 3 tap + AR per your advice, but that did not help at all. Doubling + Quadrupling, both @ NNEDI3 16 neurons + NNEDI3 16 neurons for Chroma Upscaling result in SEVERE frame drops... That is WITH and WITHOUT SuperRes Chroma Upscaling filter and SuperRes Image Refinement... Using D3D11 or not using it also made no difference. Could it be just nVidia drivers? I use the latest 350.12 nVidia drivers, LAV Filters 0.65 (LAV Video uses CUVID), MPC-HC 1.7.8, ReClock

I still want to figure these out in addition to figuring out how to resolve Image Quadrupling issue:
1. What about Direct3D 11? Does it improve quality or performance? When I enable it with or without the "present a frame for every Vsync" I get presentation glitches, but no delayed or dropped frames. What are the presentation glitches? Should presentation glitches be ignored if no frames are delayed and dropped?
2. Is there any comparison or reports from people regarding the difference between SuperRes for Chroma Upscaling filter VS. SuperRes for Image Refinement.
3. Does 10bit selection for "the native display bitdepth is" work for nVidia Maxwell owners who use 8bit+FRC monitors via DisplayPort? My Eizo Foris FG2421 is an 8bit+FRC panel, but nVidia lacks an option to enable 10bit depth in its settings. Should I select 10bit anyway?

To everyone else - I saw true 10bit IPS monitor gradients and my Eizo Foris FG2421 8bit+FRC panel gradients do not look as good, but my panel has 4700:1 contrast ratio after calibration. In the end, I DO think true 10bit panels show better gradation than 8bit+FRC monitors. Its like saying that 6bit+FRC TN panels are as good as true 8bit IPS panels in regards to gradation (not everything else though). On my FG2421, there is some "banding" visible in darker grayscale levels when I use ArgyllCMS 1D LUT for desktop/games, but its not so much banding as the actual dithering pattern that changes. I don't really like it to be honest. It makes it impossible to get a real accurate 1DLUT calibration, especially for darker gray levels. The dithering itself only works if the pixels turn a different color, one that is not accurate for that grayscale level, again, making it impossible to truly calibrate. 3DLUT is probably less affected since its being processed at higher bitdepth, but that dithering is ALWAYS there. I use dispcalGUI 3.0.0 with ArgyllCMS 1.7.0 x86 and i1Display Pro colorimeter.

Last edited by XMonarchY; 12th May 2015 at 00:38.
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Old 12th May 2015, 00:40   #29704  |  Link
baii
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Ok, disabling dithering is a valid test, but only for checking if there's any difference between 8bit and 10bit output at all. You should always have dithering enabled in real life. So that's what you should test with, in order to decide whether using 10bit output has any real benefit. So I would recommend to enable dithering again and then check if you can see any difference in image quality between 8bit and 10bit.
With most 10 bit monitor having a matte coating and FSE is needed (no on the fly switch), It is really hard to see if there is noise difference.

even with a artificial ramp that looks like this in 8bit w.o dither
http://i.imgur.com/zzSpKR7.jpg
dither on vs 10bit FSE, at a glance, I have no way to tell difference.

Last edited by baii; 12th May 2015 at 00:50.
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Old 12th May 2015, 00:53   #29705  |  Link
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Sorry, I did not test 0.88 yet, since i did not have time to read bug reports, etc.
I just wanted to know if it's a 0.87.21 known bug.

With x64 build of 0.87.21 (and not x86), even if I disable "switch to matching display mode", madVR automatically changes refresh rate. Instead of 60Hz (define in Windows before launching movie), it automatically switches to 59Hz when I enter Fullscreen. I saw it because my TV becomes black and TV OSD shows resolution/refresh rate (even if it writes 60Hz instead of 59). With madVR stats, it's easily confirmed.

I think I'll test 0.88 tomorrow, but if someone would confirm it was a known bug, it would be nice.
PS: I've installed latest Beta Catalyst driver to be sure it was not drivers related, but it's the same problem.

Last edited by pirlouy; 12th May 2015 at 00:56.
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Old 12th May 2015, 00:56   #29706  |  Link
edcrfv94
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if use NNEDI3 double & quadruple image with superRes Player will stop only can be close
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Old 12th May 2015, 02:15   #29707  |  Link
tobindac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
10-bit Display Support Test

This test will make it easier to see if your display actually supports 10bit input to output.
We already know that D3D11 + FSE in madVR will output a 10bit signal in windows 7 and up.
Now we just need to provide a super smooth black to white test pattern to clearly be able to see with our eyes.

First download this Greyscale Ramp mp4 file which I copied from AVS709HD (all rights reserved to them):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6e...scale_Ramp.zip

Play the mp4 file and set madVR as follows:
display->properties->10bit
display->calibration->disable & disable GPU gamma ramp.
processing->artifact removal->reduce banding ON: High High.
rendering-> general-> Direct3D 11 ON
rendering->dithering->none
rendering->general->automatic exclusive fullscreen mode (FSE)-> off (for now).

When the strong Debanding is On and Dithering is Off the resulting output image will be a gradient in the bitdepth you set under properties.
You can switch between bit depths to see what I mean and go back to 10bit.

Now go fullscreen without FSE (windowed fullscreen) to see the 8bit banding which should be visible because there are only 256 gradients from black to white because the GPU is sending the image in 8bit to the display in this mode.

Now switch FSE On ("automatic exclusive fullscreen mode" under general) and go fullscreen again, now the GPU actually sends 10bit image to the display, and if your display supports 10bit input, you should now see 1024 gradients from black to white which is practically indiscernible (to me).

If you still see the 8bit gradients even though the GPU sends 10bit to your display in FSE+D3D11 mode, your display does not support 10bit.

* The Panasonic ST60 does not support 10bit at the input, I still see the 8bit gradients.
But the Dell U2410 flickers and switches to 10bit mode and the image is smooth (first time seeing 10bit mode after owning this display for 5 years).
Wow, my monitor does support 10bit display!1 I keep being impressed with this IPS monitor. I've managed to reliably overclock it to 76Hz and the image is so clear. In conjunction with SVP it's perfect for movies.
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Old 12th May 2015, 02:19   #29708  |  Link
tobindac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm also not sure if the display dithers or maybe the GPU. It's really hard to say. In the end, we can only compare and use whichever mode looks best to our eyes.
Are we sure the panels aren't just capable of using 10bit?
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Old 12th May 2015, 02:41   #29709  |  Link
Asmodian
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v0.88.4 is running very well for me and I like the new D3D11 support a lot - it allows a faster transition into and out of FSE.
edit: no performance hit with SLI on when using D3D11!

FineSharp is also quite nice for some content.

Thanks for these major updates!

Of course, at some point in the future, it would be great to have profile support for "image enhancements" and "upscaling refinement".
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Last edited by Asmodian; 12th May 2015 at 03:46.
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Old 12th May 2015, 04:13   #29710  |  Link
baii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
v0.88.4 is running very well for me and I like the new D3D11 support a lot - it allows a faster transition into and out of FSE.
edit: no performance hit with SLI on when using D3D11!

FineSharp is also quite nice for some content.

Thanks for these major updates!

Of course, at some point in the future, it would be great to have profile support for "image enhancements" and "upscaling refinement".
i remember profile for new features were added in .88.2?
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Old 12th May 2015, 04:43   #29711  |  Link
noee
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Make sure aero is turned on?
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Old 12th May 2015, 04:50   #29712  |  Link
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Make sure aero is turned on?
yes that was it, thank you.
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Old 12th May 2015, 04:58   #29713  |  Link
bcec
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I seem to be getting 10-bits only when my display is at 60Hz. When at 23Hz, I don't seem to be getting the 10-bit output.

I am using the following pattern in mpc-hc x64:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...8&postcount=11

win7x64, gtx970 connected to 10-bit TV via HDMI 2.0.

At 60Hz dithering disabled, I see a smooth pattern.
At 23Hz dithering disabled, I see the same banding 8-bits and up.

I am not sure who is at fault, madvr, nvidia or TV? Any ideas? Does anyone successfully produce 10-bit output in 23Hz?
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:12   #29714  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by baii View Post
i remember profile for new features were added in .88.2?
oops! you are right, they are profileable now.

Thanks.
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:19   #29715  |  Link
Anime Viewer
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rendering vs present finesharp vs superres

Experimenting with the image enhancement and upscaling refinement settings it seems FineSharp and SuperRes provide similar image quality improvements to each other. The two together provide too many artifacts, so it seems (at least on my system) that its best to choose one or the other. SuperRes seems to provide slightly higher render times and faster present times while FineSharp has faster render times with higher present times. Given the 480 video upscaled to 1080 resolution I was testing there was only a small swing either way (SuperRes 15ms render 9ms present, FineSharp 8ms render, 12ms present). What are opinions on which is the better to keep low(er), or allow to drift high(er).

Edit: Tested 720p video upscaled to 1080p also. Finesharp was ~11ms on both render and present while SuperRes was 20ms render and 8ms present. Based on that I'll probably go with Finesharp for the moment.
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Last edited by Anime Viewer; 12th May 2015 at 05:26. Reason: added 720p to 1080 upscale results to Finesharp vs SuperRes test
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:36   #29716  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Viewer View Post
Experimenting with the image enhancement and upscaling refinement settings it seems FineSharp and SuperRes provide similar image quality improvements to each other. The two together provide too many artifacts, so it seems (at least on my system) that its best to choose one or the other. SuperRes seems to provide slightly higher render times and faster present times while FineSharp has faster render times with higher present times. Given the 480 video upscaled to 1080 resolution I was testing there was only a small swing either way (SuperRes 15ms render 9ms present, FineSharp 8ms render, 12ms present). What are opinions on which is the better to keep low(er), or allow to drift high(er).

Edit: Tested 720p video upscaled to 1080p also. Finesharp was ~11ms on both while SuperRes was 20ms render and 8ms present. Based on that I'll probably go with Finesharp for the moment.
the present times shouldn't be affected. these settings have nothing to do with presentation.
something isn't working as it should i guess. you should usually have avg present times below 1 ms...
i usually have avg present times below 0.2 no matter what settings are used.

how are your present times with other presentation modes like old path or overlay?
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:38   #29717  |  Link
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I'm having a small problem using D11. My refresh rate changes from 59.99 in windowed to 59.93 in FSE, which makes the transition somehow slow.
This happens on my TV, and not on my monitor. I tried with the TV as main screen and it happens the exact same way. With D9 no problem.
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:40   #29718  |  Link
potomac
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madshi thanks for this huge work
i tested 10 bit on my cheap lg ips235 and i can see the improvement in the gray scale but my 5850 doesn't work well in dx11 mode
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:46   #29719  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by agustin9 View Post
I'm having a small problem using D11. My refresh rate changes from 59.99 in windowed to 59.93 in FSE, which makes the transition somehow slow.
This happens on my TV, and not on my monitor. I tried with the TV as main screen and it happens the exact same way. With D9 no problem.
i have the same problem could be this bug but for d3d11:
http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=90
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Old 12th May 2015, 05:54   #29720  |  Link
agustin9
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i have the same problem could be this bug but for d3d11:
http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=90
The thing is, I forgot to mention, that i have the display switcher off on both screens... I'm using Windows 8.1...
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