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6th March 2017, 23:51 | #42961 | Link | ||||||
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I don't know yet. Generally I prefer to work on direct quadrupling algos, because they have a much better quality vs speed ratio. Quote:
Anyway, you can always use the "use downscaling settings" option, then you have full control. Quote:
Depends on the feature/option. |
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6th March 2017, 23:59 | #42962 | Link | |
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2. According to my test, NGU AA very high beats NNEDI3 256 as a whole, especially for low-res aliased anime content. NGU AA makes line more focus and less aliasing as expected. 3. I found that NGU AA very high is slightly faster than NNEDI3 64 when zooming 200% without doing any upsaling or downscaling after luma doubling. However, when doing upsaling or downscaling after luma doubling, NGU AA very high is slightly slower than NNEDI3 64. I don't know why but it doesn't matter. I'll replace NNEDI3 with NGU AA on my settings. 4. For chroma upscaling, it's hard to tell the quality differents between NNEDI3 and NGU AA, but I can confirm that NGU AA med is faster than NNEDI3 16. Graphics card:NV GTX1060 6GB (driver 373.06) OS:win7 x64 Anyway, I like NGU AA and NGU sharp(2x and direct 4x), they keep good balance between quality and performance. Again, Thank you for your great works. |
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7th March 2017, 01:20 | #42963 | Link | |
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I can easily reproduce it, question is, how can I assist you with data?
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7th March 2017, 02:01 | #42964 | Link | |
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2) In order to test out NGU-AA I went back to my problem image with original NGU, the one I posted some time ago (480p anime source, soft image with a hand reaching for some cherries). NGU-AA still presents some fairly visible artifacts, especially on the outlines of the fingers. It's bad enough that it's visible while watching normally, when quadrupling 480p. NNEDI3 256 is clearly better in this case still, as the wavy/blotchy artifacts do not appear and the image looks much more natural. I haven't had the time to take screenshots and crop them again - but I'm sure you can reproduce the results based on the original I posted a while back. It's the same style of artifacts as normal NGU produces, but less severe. 3) I've done a simple 1080p > 2160p test, NGU-AA (vhigh) takes ~32ms while NNEDI3 256 takes 58ms (so unusable in real time), without touching any of the other settings. In my 480p config I find that NNEDI3 128, then 64 quadrupling is usable in real time and provides better quality that NGU-AA on that particular source I mentioned. 4) I haven't looked too closely at chroma settings, but generally speaking NGU-AA is faster and I have not noticed any image quality issues due to any NGU flavor here (those are restricted to NGU luma quadrupling). Last edited by Bloodred; 7th March 2017 at 02:11. |
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7th March 2017, 05:27 | #42965 | Link | |
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I just wanted more sharpen edges to be available, and it is, by doubling twice, but wanted the same with direct quadruple. I find the extra sharpness useful when zoomed in on a decent quality decent resolution frame/image. Not that big of a deal, I can use sharpen edges in image enhancements, though not to the same potential. |
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7th March 2017, 07:15 | #42966 | Link | |
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Yes, I'll be using "use downscaling settings" for full control. Makes the most sense. |
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7th March 2017, 09:45 | #42967 | Link | |||||
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Lanczos and even Jinc produce exactly the same artifacts (and Jinc is known to be the most natural and aliasing-free linear scaler!). I think that says a lot. The artifacts do seem to come from the source, considering that even Jinc shows them. However, NNEDI3 does seem to be able to smooth them out. So my judgement right now is that for extremely soft and wide edges, NNEDI3 manages to apply some Anti-Aliasing, too, while NGU AA is "only" on the same level as Jinc with such edges. Do you agree with this? If so, it means that NGU AA does not introduce any artifacts on its own, it just has lower AA capability than NNEDI3 for extremely soft & wide edges. That's a very important finding, IMHO, because if NGU AA introduced such kind of artifacts (even if the source doesn't have them!), that would be a major problem. A lower than expected AA capability in some cases is of course not a nice finding, but it's a much less dramatic problem than introducing new weird artifacts into the image. So now the question would be how you would rate NGU AA vs NNEDI3 with a broader set of sources, not just this one image. Which do you prefer then? Quote:
The sharpening after the first doubling has much more effect than sharpening after quadrupling. So if you don't sharpen after doubling but only after quadrupling, just doubling the sharpening strength won't achieve the same effect. However, increasing the sharpening strength even more might introduce sharpening artifacts. The key difference is that sharpening algos look at the pixel neighborhood of a specific size. If you sharpen after doubling, each pixel covers more of the original image than after quadrupling. So practically the pixel neighborhood when sharpening after doubling is bigger than when sharpening after quadrupling. Which explains why sharpening after doubling is more effective. However, using a larger neighborhood also bloats more. Anyway, a potential solution to this problem might be to modify the sharpening algorithm itself to use a bigger pixel neighborhood when sharpening after quadrupling (instead of doubling). However, that would make the sharpening slower. I think it would be better to pick a sharper upscaler than to try to sharpen the image. If you like sharp, use "NGU Sharp" and get rid of the extra sharpening algos. If that's still not sharp enough for your taste, then try sharpening the image before upscaling it (see image enhancements). Quote:
And can you see a difference in sharpness, when using strict vs relaxed AR? In some images I've found it to be quite noticeable. |
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7th March 2017, 10:15 | #42968 | Link | |
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In order to have the "proper" rendering time shown, I am forced to change the algorithm for chroma, and then back to what it was. Some other person said he also saw this bug. Would be excellent to get rid of it since it's quite confusing.
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7th March 2017, 10:22 | #42969 | Link |
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Problem with Keyboard Shortcuts
I have some problems with assigning keyboard shortcuts in the latest version(s).
I want to do the following: assign a key to get Softcubic 70 luma upscaling (for low quality sources) and one for Lanczos3 AR (for HQ sources; my Intel HD 4600 cannot handle anything more advanced). This worked in the madVR versions before the redesigned luma scaling options, but now assigning "softcubic" does not work any more . The available choice for keyboard shortcuts is just "cubic" without further choice. The strange thing is that at first the "cubic" shortcut worked but only produced the "bicubic" variant. After I manually changed the dropdown in the luma scaling options to "softcubic" the key I assigned to "cubic" is ignored when pressed. What can I do to get the desired "softcubic" shortcut? |
7th March 2017, 10:41 | #42970 | Link |
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madshi,
Is the new upscaling settings page fine now? It would be nice if we could choose what to do with chroma when doubling. For example being able to disable chroma doubling and simply select an upscaler to use, or to be able to select what algorithm to double chroma with (NGU Low, Med, High, Very High / Jinc AR, Lancos AR / NNEDI3 16-256 neurons ect). Probably overkill but I would have liked to have tried out NGU Anti-Alias Very High for both luma and chroma, the current presets are too limited for my use. When disregarding speed, how would you rate NGU Anti-Alias Very High vs. NNEDI3 256-taps, for image upscaling? NGU Anti-Alias is pretty close to NNEDI3 now, you've done a great job with it, depending on the source it can be a little too aggressive at removing aliasing which can produce images that have a flat digital look to them. Overall I still prefer NNEDI3 because it's more balanced, keeps more of the image noise / detail intact. When taking speed into account, how would you rate NGU Anti-Alias vs NNEDI3 at the various quality levels, for image upscaling? NGU Anti-Alias is almost twice as fast, image doubling 1.2x (quadrupling disabled) PAL interlaced DVD upscaled to 1080p (Geforce GTX 1070) NGU Anti-Alias Very High preset (luma and chroma) ~8.8ms vs NNEDI3 256 neurons / very high preset chroma ~16ms. I vote to keep NNEDI3 as I don't think NGU Anti-Alias can replace it just yet, highly recommended as a faster alternative though. Cheers. Last edited by FreeFall; 7th March 2017 at 10:43. |
7th March 2017, 10:58 | #42971 | Link |
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960GTX to R9 380
Hello,
I can switch from GTX960 to R9 380 for free. I know that the 380 has an hybrid hevc decoder, but I don't know the real impact on my setup. I mainly read H264 1080p blurays, but I have started encoding my movie stock to HEVC. Is it worth switching to R9 380? I have a 1080p projector, my render time is globally ok but I use 60Hz frame interpolation so sometimes the render time is borderline. The frame interpolation is managed by the CPU so it doesn't interfer with madvr AFAIK.
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7th March 2017, 15:12 | #42972 | Link |
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When selecting doubling instead of scaling, the option 'any (more) scaling' is pretty limited while this is effectively still an important option. It's missing Catmull, Spline, Mitchell. The last two are particularly useful, Mitchell for SD and Spline for general-purpose when Jinc or AR are too expensive. Most of the stuff listed is AR, so choices are effectively made for us. It's not terrible, but I much preferred the old behaviour when it was still a toolbox. Anyway.. I can only repeat that same sentiment so many times so I'll tip my hat now.
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7th March 2017, 15:23 | #42973 | Link | |
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i don't know which card is faster for madVR but the difference is not going to be a big one. |
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7th March 2017, 15:53 | #42974 | Link |
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Screen goes black after stopping fullscreen playback
I have a Laptop connected via HDMI to a Panasonic Plasma TV. The dual screen is set up as "extend" (not "duplicate") in Windows 10. I have set up the Laptop to use the NVIDIA 950m instead of integrated Intel graphics when using MPC-HC.
When the refresh rate of the TV is set as 50Hz in Windows graphics control panel everything works fine (the Laptop screen stays at its native 60Hz and MPC-HC running on the TV plays at 50Hz). However, as I use smooth motion, I would like to have the TV run at 60Hz (IIRC this was recommended earlier in this thread). The problem is I can change this setting in Windows and the playback then starts fine with MPC-HC and madVR in full screen mode (also the correct 60Hz setting is displayed), but if I then e.g. press the right mouse button during the movie the whole TV screen goes black and the video refuses to play after this. Not good. But it gets even worse: If I then try to exit full screen mode with "Alt+Enter", also the Laptop Screen goes black and I can't see anything any more. Does anyone have an idea what could cause this strange behavior? |
7th March 2017, 16:26 | #42975 | Link | |||||||
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I don't know. If the R9 380 is noticeably faster in games, it will probably also be noticeably faster with madVR. However, latest AMD drivers on Windows 10 seem rather unstable, from the reports I'm seeing here in this thread. Quote:
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7th March 2017, 16:42 | #42976 | Link | |
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7th March 2017, 17:41 | #42977 | Link | |
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I think you should not drop a good upscaler like NNEDI3. Before NGU came, NNEDI3 was unarguably the best image doubler in madVR in terms of image quality. People have been using it for several years without any complaint about quality. Even if NGU Anti-Alias was miles better than NNEDI3, still you shouldn’t be replacing it. NNEDI3 may be considered as a good fallback option for image doubling, just like Random dithering is in the choice of dithering algorithms. |
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7th March 2017, 19:54 | #42979 | Link | ||
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NGU AA is overall better than NNEDI3 I think, but not universally better. Also I'd love to see direct quadrupling for NGU AA. Direct quadrupling 720p content with NGU Sharp is pretty great! |
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7th March 2017, 20:24 | #42980 | Link | ||||||
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FWIW, in your comparison image, some of the lines are better anti-aliased by NNEDI3, but the dress of the girl is clearly sharper in the NGU AA image. Quote:
Anyway, I won't remove NNEDI3 immediately, if there are several users opposed to it. I would like to thin out the options dialog, though, so I'd still like to know if anybody were shocked if I remove NNEDI3 as a *chroma* upscaling algorithm? The list is too long for my taste, and considering that chroma upscaling is less visible than luma, and most users seem to prefer NGU AA over NNEDI3, it shouldn't do too much harm? Quote:
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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