Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th May 2019, 18:44   #56141  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,475
Long shot or not but if I want to zoom a 1080p60 video by 30%, why does mVR still does all its processing even on portions of the video that aren't shown? Wouldn't it be possible to only post-process(SSIM/NGU/etc) what's visible after zoom is applied? It's a waste of ressources and I might get away with higher quality picture if that was doable.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 19:21   #56142  |  Link
hotripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisssj2 View Post

EDIT:
Just put up the mission impossible 2018 movie.
And im getting stutters all over the place. Whereas 2015 mission impossible was fine today!

http://prntscr.com/nkdc6g

Lots of occasional glitches and frame drops. Any idea?
Most of it is watchable but every minute or so something happens. sometimes a second only and sometimes several seconds.
Yeah thats high and high renders and cues arent filling. What driver are you on? Latest or 418.91? You aren,t display matching...? Check Task Manager see if you have anything hogging resources. Maybe you have the high cpu bug for nvidia.
__________________
3700X - RTX2070 - 970EVO - EVGA Supernova 750W Gold - Sony KD55X720E
hotripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:17   #56143  |  Link
chrisssj2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotripper View Post
Yeah thats high and high renders and cues arent filling. What driver are you on? Latest or 418.91? You aren,t display matching...? Check Task Manager see if you have anything hogging resources. Maybe you have the high cpu bug for nvidia.
No idea what that means what you just said but im on latest nvidia drivers. Nothing running on the computer. And I can't exactly pullup task manager while playing exlusive fulscreen movie.

Anyway I undid the suggested changed in the "Trade quality for performance" tab and set them to default. also changed back from RGB to YBCR.
I don't actually know what caused it.
But after changing those things the movie playbackked flawlessly.
chrisssj2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:27   #56144  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Wouldn't it be possible to only post-process(SSIM/NGU/etc) what's visible after zoom is applied?
No, the player is doing the zoom and it does it by telling madVR to render to a larger size, madVR does not know exactly what part of the image is off the screen. That is also a pretty rare use case for a dedicated feature but a simple manual crop could do it (with more work) and be useful in other ways too.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 4th May 2019 at 20:30.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:33   #56145  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
No, the player is doing the zoom and it does it by telling madVR to render to a larger size, madVR does not know exactly what part of the image is off the screen. That is also a pretty rare use case for a dedicated feature but a simple manual crop could do it (with more work) and be useful in other ways too.
mVR is told by the player what portion to zoom in, I don't see why invisible portions are being processed at all....especially with 4K content for instance.

Manual crop? With Avisynth in ffdshow in 8bit? No thanks
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:54   #56146  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,888
I meant a new feature for madVR, a manual crop, not resurrecting ffdshow.
I used to think that madVR would never have those kind of features but we got denoising, deblocking, sharpening, etc. A crop does not seem inappropriate.

Is madVR told by the player what portion to zoom into or is it simply told to render to a specific rectangle? I am pretty sure madVR simply gets told a target rectangle. It could assume (0,0) is the top left most visible pixel, and the display is a specific resolution, but I am not sure that would be true in all situations.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 4th May 2019 at 21:24.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 20:58   #56147  |  Link
Siso
Registered User
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I meant a new feature for madVR, a manual crop, not resurrecting ffdshow.
I used to think that madVR would never have those kind of features but we got denoising, deblocking, sharpening, etc. A crop does not seem inappropriate.

Is madVR told by the player what portion to zoom into or is it simply told to render to a specific rectangle? I am pretty sure madVR simply gets told a target rectangle, it could assume (0,0) is the top left most visible pixel pixel and a specific aspect ratio but I am not sure that would be true in all situations.
Manual crop or crop via AR, would be a very cool feature in madvr, just my two cents
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 22:04   #56148  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Is madVR told by the player what portion to zoom into or is it simply told to render to a specific rectangle? I am pretty sure madVR simply gets told a target rectangle. It could assume (0,0) is the top left most visible pixel, and the display is a specific resolution, but I am not sure that would be true in all situations.
mVR gets told what portion to zoom in, let it do the math and only process what's visible then:

Code is kinda already there with black bars cropping and all so mostly a small change and we'd be good to go heh, sometimes I'd love to zoom in 1080p60 videos but it ends up in stutterland coz the 30/40% of picture that are invisible are being processed anyway.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 23:15   #56149  |  Link
madjock
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisssj2 View Post
No idea what that means what you just said but im on latest nvidia drivers. Nothing running on the computer. And I can't exactly pullup task manager while playing exlusive fulscreen movie.

Anyway I undid the suggested changed in the "Trade quality for performance" tab and set them to default. also changed back from RGB to YBCR.
I don't actually know what caused it.
But after changing those things the movie playbackked flawlessly.
Here is what I see from your OSD/s

Playing a 23.976 @30
You say you are 12 Bit, which you are with nVidia. but madVR is outputting in 8 Bit
you are at Limited should you be in Full ?
Looking at the 2nd screen the GPU cannot cope at all and the frame rates are still off ?

Unsure why you cannot see this, will it make a difference to the choppiness unsure. Ultimately madVR and nVidia are not in tune for the later cards, but the settings you are using will not help.

Read this this thread to understand what the OSD means etc...
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188- 5. MEASURING PERFORMANCE & TROUBLESHOOTING
__________________
Windows 10-1909 | i5-3570k | GTX 1070 Windforce OC Rev2 8GB : 430.64 | Pioneer VSX-534 | Philips 65PUS6703 - 65"

Last edited by madjock; 5th May 2019 at 09:53.
madjock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 13:29   #56150  |  Link
chrisssj2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Here is what I see from your OSD/s

Playing a 23.976 @30
You say you are 12 Bit, which you are with nVidia. but madVR is outputting in 8 Bit
you are at Limited should you be in Full ?
Looking at the 2nd screen the GPU cannot cope at all and the frame rates are still off ?

Unsure why you cannot see this, will it make a difference to the choppiness unsure. Ultimately madVR and nVidia are not in tune for the later cards, but the settings you are using will not help.

Read this this thread to understand what the OSD means etc...
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188- 5. MEASURING PERFORMANCE & TROUBLESHOOTING
That maybe due to the fact I need to make it windowed to make a screenshot..? Unsure will check.
Yes like I said suddenly with that movie it was completely unwatchable. But with the other movie it was perfect. Sounds strange no?

So I should use nvidia's 24 hz setting? When playing RGB? or even if I choose to YCBR, always 24 hz rather then 60 hz?
chrisssj2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 14:22   #56151  |  Link
Klaus1189
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 961
23 Hz for 23.976p
24 Hz for 24.000p
50 Hz for 25.000p, 50.000p and also interlaced 25.000i/50.000i (same thing)
59 Hz for 29.970p, 59.940p and also interlaced 29.970i/59.940i (again same thing)
60 Hz for 30.000p, 60.000p and also interlaced 30.000i/60.000i (and again same thing)

Please note:
23.976 is 24.000/1.001
29.970 is 30.000/1.001
59.940 is 60.000/1.001
Klaus1189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 14:50   #56152  |  Link
Charky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisssj2 View Post
Using 12 RGB BIT here.. Don't rly see difference at first glance to ybcr

Tried putting the TV on low blacks during mission impossible 2015 movie. And it looked better in my own personal opinion.
With blacks on high it looked too bright and grey IMO. The blacks low make the blacks rly nice.

Also RTings guide suggest to use Low black levels for my tv.
While many settings in madvr are about what looks nice to your eyes, black levels are NOT one of them : there are (several) right and (many) wrong settings.

Best advice (and madshi's own recommandation : https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...16#post1271416) is generally to set the whole chain (madvr + GPU driver + display) to Full, and check with a pattern to make sure your near blacks and near whites are correct.

This wiki page explains it all : https://kodi.wiki/view/Video_levels_and_color_space

Last edited by Charky; 5th May 2019 at 14:57.
Charky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 17:29   #56153  |  Link
jorsan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Maybe you could help: some of my music concerts are in 480. When the camera is moving (showing the uadice for example), I can see intervals of clear and blur images. how can I solve this issue?. I use Jriver/MAdvr/2070 gpu/i5/Windows 10. Thanks in advance
jorsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 18:27   #56154  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 610
We need more info:
- is it 480i (from a TV feed or a DVD for example) or 480p? If 480i, is deinterlacing active? What fps? Can you post the Video info section from MediaInfo?
- Are you sure it's not in the source? If you frame-step like with Ctrl+Right in MPC-HC, are the frames blurry?
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1909, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 19:09   #56155  |  Link
hotripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisssj2 View Post
That maybe due to the fact I need to make it windowed to make a screenshot..? Unsure will check.
Yes like I said suddenly with that movie it was completely unwatchable. But with the other movie it was perfect. Sounds strange no?

So I should use nvidia's 24 hz setting? When playing RGB? or even if I choose to YCBR, always 24 hz rather then 60 hz?
You should be able to take a screenshot in FSE or windowed, use madvr settings f5 not windows prnt scrn, but both work for me I just prefer madvr screenshots.

No it does not sound strange as the new turing cards are giving completely random issues for video playback.

Go to nvidia cp set 24hz full rgb save, then you can repeat as necessary and finally go back to 60hz 8 full rgb if you want. Use madvr diplay matching and it will automatically switch to 12bit full rgb 24hz and back and forth as you change from desktop to fullscreen with madvr.
__________________
3700X - RTX2070 - 970EVO - EVGA Supernova 750W Gold - Sony KD55X720E
hotripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 22:56   #56156  |  Link
chrisssj2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotripper View Post
You should be able to take a screenshot in FSE or windowed, use madvr settings f5 not windows prnt scrn, but both work for me I just prefer madvr screenshots.

No it does not sound strange as the new turing cards are giving completely random issues for video playback.

Go to nvidia cp set 24hz full rgb save, then you can repeat as necessary and finally go back to 60hz 8 full rgb if you want. Use madvr diplay matching and it will automatically switch to 12bit full rgb 24hz and back and forth as you change from desktop to fullscreen with madvr.
The post above says I should use 23hz for movies..?
Anyway I see forgot to put RGB limited to full. OSD shows full now with 10 bits. Not sure if it suppose to show 12 bits since that is what nvidia is set on. BUt that is what it shows.

where is this display matching setting located?
chrisssj2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 23:37   #56157  |  Link
jorsan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
thanks El Filou. Let mw get the info and let you know. Thanks again for your input
jorsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 02:40   #56158  |  Link
hotripper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisssj2 View Post
The post above says I should use 23hz for movies..?
Anyway I see forgot to put RGB limited to full. OSD shows full now with 10 bits. Not sure if it suppose to show 12 bits since that is what nvidia is set on. BUt that is what it shows.

where is this display matching setting located?
Madvr>devices>display mode

Enable switch to matching and paste this in the box for 4k tv if 1080p tv then sub 1080:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60

And go to display properties in windows, monitor tab, and make sure your display supports those values.
__________________
3700X - RTX2070 - 970EVO - EVGA Supernova 750W Gold - Sony KD55X720E

Last edited by hotripper; 6th May 2019 at 02:47.
hotripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 14:16   #56159  |  Link
Charky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisssj2 View Post
The post above says I should use 23hz for movies..?
Well, that depends too

Some of us (Asmodian among them I believe) prefer to stick with a 60 Hz display and trust madvr frame blending (aka "smooth motion") to handle 3:2 judder.

Display matching comes with drawbacks, most notably the fact that, out of the box, most display can't perfectly reproduce 23,976 Hz and you will most likely experience frame drops/repeats (micro stutters) every few minutes, unless you create a custom resolution with madvr's integrated utility or another tool such as CRU. When they work, custom resolution are great, but if you're unlucky they can be excessively tricky to get right, depending on your GPU manufacturer, display brand, driver version, or a combination of these

Last edited by Charky; 6th May 2019 at 14:22.
Charky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 14:30   #56160  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,406
you are mixing to different problems here.

a display that has a problem with 3:2 judder at 23p can't be fixed CRU and alike these displays are very common and just work with 60 hz internally.

the repeated dropped frame every couple mins comes from audio video clock deviations and the display has nothing with this.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.