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Old 25th October 2004, 17:49   #41  |  Link
mateo4x4
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EQM V3 ULR

The results of my tests:

Compressibility: about 16% higher than HVS Best and 0,2% higher than
Jawor's 1CD QM.
4 different DVD sources compressed.
All XviD settings: default
Some scenes were encoded with resolution of 720x* and some resized to
640x*
Av. bitrate 850-950 kb/s
No additional AVS filters used.

In my opinion it works really fine and is much better than previous ULR matrix. The picture is much cleaner.

Download screens- updated

Last edited by dr.Prozac; 26th October 2004 at 14:49.
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Old 25th October 2004, 18:57   #42  |  Link
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This version is performing really better than the previous.
Thanx for the screenshots (the .zip is broken) and for your feedback.
Once the Soulhunter's Custom Quantization Matrices test will end i could "retouch" some of the V3 matrices (expecially the high bitrate ones).

Last edited by Sharktooth; 25th October 2004 at 20:05.
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Old 25th October 2004, 23:59   #43  |  Link
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(the .zip is broken)
You mean it doesn't work ? Any problems with unpacking this file ?
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Old 26th October 2004, 09:19   #44  |  Link
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i had to repair it to see the screenshots but 1 is corrupted.
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Old 26th October 2004, 14:13   #45  |  Link
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Hmmm.. I really don't know what is the reason
I tried to download, unpack .zip and all of the screenshots are fine.
In 10 min time I'll try to add same more screens and make a new .zip file under that link.
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Old 26th October 2004, 18:42   #46  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by mateo4x4
Hmmm.. I really don't know what is the reason
I tried to download, unpack .zip and all of the screenshots are fine.
In 10 min time I'll try to add same more screens and make a new .zip file under that link.
Err.. the new .zip is corrupted too..

What're you using to create the .zip file? (Windows i guess)
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Old 26th October 2004, 20:45   #47  |  Link
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Corrupted
I fixed it with winrar.
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Old 26th October 2004, 22:56   #48  |  Link
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What're you using to create the .zip file? (Windows i guess)
No, I use Winrar 3.30.
Really strange. I have no idea what is the reason
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Old 26th October 2004, 23:41   #49  |  Link
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I was able to download both correctly, although it took several times with the first one.

Look here

bis besser,
T0B1A5
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Old 27th October 2004, 01:06   #50  |  Link
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Maybe it's the server. Who knows?

@Tobias: I will PM you tomorrow with a LONG explanation...
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Old 28th October 2004, 13:57   #51  |  Link
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I made a DVD -> XViD copy of one of my DVD-9 R2 (PAL) movies yesterday following the guide located here
Using DGIndex (instead of DVD2AVI) VitrualDub 1.5.10 and VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.1 (for muxing AVI with AC3), I used latest (to my knowledge) XviD-1.0.2-29082004.

As "Quantization type" I used MPEG (as it was recommended for higher bitrate), I guess I should have used your V3HR or VRUHR matrices now when I found out about them, right? I used bitrate 2400kbps (shows up as 2100 kb/s in GSpot v2.21). Which matrices would u recommend using with that kind of bitrate? And do you have any recommendations other then default settings when making XViD with that high bitrate?

My other question is that my source was 720x576@25fps (PAL), in DGIndex when using the cropping feauture (to take away small black bars at top and bottom) I could crop 16x2 (16 at top and 16 at buttom) so it showed up as 720x544 (576-16*2=544). I guess the source is anamorphic DVD, so it uses 544 horizontal lines (and 720 vertical lines)? But when following the guide to keep original Aspect Ration of 1.85:1 (says on DVD-box) I would make 720/1.85 = 389 horizontal lines (after cropping), which is far less then original 544. To have a height that is a multiple of 8 I decided upon 392 horizontal lines (720/392 = 1.84:1). It all looks alright, but my question is that when encoding DVD to XViD (or DivX) you actually loose horizontal resoultion on anamorphic sources right? So transparency between DVD and XViD isn't possible?

Last edited by XiOUS; 28th October 2004 at 14:01.
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Old 28th October 2004, 14:48   #52  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by XiOUS
I made a DVD -> XViD copy of one of my DVD-9 R2 (PAL) movies yesterday following the guide located here
Using DGIndex (instead of DVD2AVI) VitrualDub 1.5.10 and VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.1 (for muxing AVI with AC3), I used latest (to my knowledge) XviD-1.0.2-29082004.
Hmmm... I am not sure VDM 1.5.10.1/2439 is a good tool to mux AC3 with AVI. But, I am really not 100% sure. Do a search about that and AviMuxGUI.

Quote:
Originally posted by XiOUS


As "Quantization type" I used MPEG (as it was recommended for higher bitrate), I guess I should have used your V3HR or VRUHR matrices now when I found out about them, right? I used bitrate 2400kbps (shows up as 2100 kb/s in GSpot v2.21). Which matrices would u recommend using with that kind of bitrate? And do you have any recommendations other then default settings when making XViD with that high bitrate?
There are MANY Custom Quant Matrices out there. Check that thread for example (in the first post there is a link to a collection of CQM). Also, do some research about Didée SixOfNine matrix. Some people (a few ) still feel it is by far the best CQM for high-bitrate/high-quality/efficient encodes.

Quote:
Originally posted by XiOUS

My other question is that my source was 720x576@25fps (PAL), in DGIndex when using the cropping feauture (to take away small black bars at top and bottom) I could crop 16x2 (16 at top and 16 at buttom) so it showed up as 720x544 (576-16*2=544). I guess the source is anamorphic DVD, so it uses 544 horizontal lines (and 720 vertical lines)? But when following the guide to keep original Aspect Ration of 1.85:1 (says on DVD-box) I would make 720/1.85 = 389 horizontal lines (after cropping), which is far less then original 544. To have a height that is a multiple of 8 I decided upon 392 horizontal lines (720/392 = 1.84:1). It all looks alright, but my question is that when encoding DVD to XViD (or DivX) you actually loose horizontal resoultion on anamorphic sources right? So transparency between DVD and XViD isn't possible?
I wouldn't crop with DGIndex. I would either use the wonderful AutoCrop plugin or Gordian Knot to do that job. Nevertheless, if after cropping a 16:9 movie the resolution goes from 720x576 to 720x544, then the AR becomes ((720/544)*1.823)/1.5 ~= 1.609. So, the resolution on playback would go from 1050x576 (AR=1.823) to 875x544 (AR=1.609). If you aim for an anamorphic encode, you shouldn't bother to keep an AR=1.823. As long as you know what the AR is after you crop, you can easily compute the required resolution on playback to keep the AR correct. Just test it yourself.

Make sure you crop using a mod16 x mod16 (or mod32 x mod16 if you want to be really safe) resolution.

Correct me if I am full of baloney.
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Last edited by PiXuS; 28th October 2004 at 14:50.
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Old 28th October 2004, 15:34   #53  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by XiOUS
As "Quantization type" I used MPEG (as it was recommended for higher bitrate), I guess I should have used your V3HR or VRUHR matrices now when I found out about them, right? I used bitrate 2400kbps (shows up as 2100 kb/s in GSpot v2.21). Which matrices would u recommend using with that kind of bitrate? And do you have any recommendations other then default settings when making XViD with that high bitrate?
I suggest you to use EQM V3HR.

Quote:
Originally posted by XiOUS
My other question is that my source was 720x576@25fps (PAL), in DGIndex when using the cropping feauture (to take away small black bars at top and bottom) I could crop 16x2 (16 at top and 16 at buttom) so it showed up as 720x544 (576-16*2=544). I guess the source is anamorphic DVD, so it uses 544 horizontal lines (and 720 vertical lines)? But when following the guide to keep original Aspect Ration of 1.85:1 (says on DVD-box) I would make 720/1.85 = 389 horizontal lines (after cropping), which is far less then original 544. To have a height that is a multiple of 8 I decided upon 392 horizontal lines (720/392 = 1.84:1). It all looks alright, but my question is that when encoding DVD to XViD (or DivX) you actually loose horizontal resoultion on anamorphic sources right? So transparency between DVD and XViD isn't possible?
DVD image is resized while playing.
An exact copy means you don't resize and use the Aspect Ratio correction within the codec configuration dialog.
That procedure is called Anamorphic encoding.
Use the forum search function for more info
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Old 28th October 2004, 17:56   #54  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by PiXuS
Hmmm... I am not sure VDM 1.5.10.1/2439 is a good tool to mux AC3 with AVI. But, I am really not 100% sure. Do a search about that and AviMuxGUI.
I've muxed several AVI's with AC3's using VDM and there is no synch problem or any other problems when playing them on the computer. Haven't tested to play on standalone DVD-player because I have none that support Xvid, but it should work there to I guess?

Quote:
Originally posted by PiXuS
I wouldn't crop with DGIndex. I would either use the wonderful AutoCrop plugin or Gordian Knot to do that job. Nevertheless, if after cropping a 16:9 movie the resolution goes from 720x576 to 720x544, then the AR becomes ((720/544)*1.823)/1.5 ~= 1.609. So, the resolution on playback would go from 1050x576 (AR=1.823) to 875x544 (AR=1.609). If you aim for an anamorphic encode, you shouldn't bother to keep an AR=1.823. As long as you know what the AR is after you crop, you can easily compute the required resolution on playback to keep the AR correct. Just test it yourself.
...
I don't crop with DGIndex (only check how much can be cropped) I do it in AVISynth-script like this one:
Code:
LoadPlugin("C:\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source("H:\Tsam\tsam.d2v")
crop(0,16,0,-16)
lanczosresize(720,392)
isn't that the best way to go? And by 720x544 I meant that DGIndex showed that resolution after cropping.
Ok to get AR 1.85 in original then horizontal resolution should be: x/576 = 1.85 -> x = 1066
with cropping (16x2) -> 1066/544 ~= 1.96 is the new AR.
So to keep all horizontal lines (544, with black bars cropped) in original DVD then I should encode in resoultion 1066x544, like this:?
Code:
LoadPlugin("C:\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source("H:\Tsam\tsam.d2v")
crop(0,16,0,-16)
lanczosresize(1066,544)
Or do horizontal resolution have to be a multiple of 8 too? Then I should use 1064x544 as 1064 is multiple of 8?
I guess there is no way to encode XViD or DiVX in anamorphic so that it's decoded like anamorphic DVD on DVD-player?

Last edited by XiOUS; 28th October 2004 at 18:02.
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Old 28th October 2004, 18:24   #55  |  Link
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If a PAL 720x576 source was converted to square pixels, it would not exceed 1024 pixels wide, so your 1050 and 1066 calculations are slightly off.

Also, if the source image is exactly 1.85:1, the vertical pixel count should be around 560 (to the nearest 16th pixel). More often than not however, I doubt that the source will be exactly 1.85:1.


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Old 28th October 2004, 18:29   #56  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
If a PAL 720x576 source was converted to square pixels, it would not exceed 1024 pixels wide, so your 1050 and 1066 calculations are slightly off.

Also, if the source image is exactly 1.85:1, the vertical pixel count should be around 560 (to the nearest 16th pixel). More often than not however, I doubt that the source will be exactly 1.85:1.


Cheers
It says 1,85:1 on the DVD-box for the movie. But when I encode it to XViD I have to have a horizontal wide of around 1064 to keep all 544 horizontal lines intact, right? As anamorphic DVD's are resized in horizontal resoultion when played on 16:9 TV's, right?
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Old 28th October 2004, 19:11   #57  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
If a PAL 720x576 source was converted to square pixels, it would not exceed 1024 pixels wide, so your 1050 and 1066 calculations are slightly off.

Also, if the source image is exactly 1.85:1, the vertical pixel count should be around 560 (to the nearest 16th pixel). More often than not however, I doubt that the source will be exactly 1.85:1.
Cheers
Can you point me to some thread or FAQ concerning this statement? I thought it was simply a matter of multiplying the horizontal lines by the PAR (1.823 if 16:9 and 1.367 if 4:3). For NTSC material, this means on playback a resolution of 875x480 for 16:9 stuff and 656x480 for 4:3 stuff. I find it weird, because I always computed the playback resolutions like so, and always got perfect results. 1024/586 is 1.77 which is 16/9, which isn't the TRUE ratio of a 16:9 presentation.

This guide on doom9 is saying what you are saying.

But then, read this thread.


Quote:
Originally posted by XiOUS

It says 1,85:1 on the DVD-box for the movie. But when I encode it to XViD I have to have a horizontal wide of around 1064 to keep all 544 horizontal lines intact, right? As anamorphic DVD's are resized in horizontal resoultion when played on 16:9 TV's, right?
Well, Goldfinger is a 1.85 presentation. That is close to 1.823 and you will notice in Gordian Knot preview mode that it fills the whole anamorphic frame (i.e.: if you are a PAL guy, it will basically use the whole 576 lines of resolution). A 2.35 presentation will really use less active lines than a 1.85 resolution (non-active lines are those which compose the black bars).

The way you computed 1066 is not correct. Let's use SeeMoreDigital numbers (PAR=1.77)

If you don't crop, the resolution on playback would be:

(1.77 * 576) x 576 ~= 1020x576

If you DO crop to 544 lines instead of 576, the resolution on playback becomes:

(((720/544)*1.77)/1.5) * 544 x 544 ~= 850x544.

And this is logic.. you have less columns because you have less lines (you got to keep the ratios right!).

Hope it helps!
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Old 28th October 2004, 19:42   #58  |  Link
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PiXuS,

I have a link at the bottom of my "sig" that you may find helpful.

But in essence, digital images on DVD's contain pixels not lines. In the case of an PAL DVD, as you know it contains 576 vertical pixels.

576 multiplied by 1.7777 (aka: 16:9) equals 1024

In the case of an NTSC DVD, it contains 480 vertical pixels.

480 x 1.7777 = 853.3333

Don't forget the above calcs are based on converting your "anamorhpic" source images to "square" pixelled images.


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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 28th October 2004 at 19:46.
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Old 28th October 2004, 21:42   #59  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
PiXuS,

I have a link at the bottom of my "sig" that you may find helpful.
I read the whole thing. But... to quote you: "In my opinion, the ITU standard is not really necessary when performing 'digital pixel to digital pixel' conversions.".

So, it is all about your humble opinion.

Which brings us back to square one.

Quote:

But in essence, digital images on DVD's contain pixels not lines. In the case of an PAL DVD, as you know it contains 576 vertical pixels.
Do you know that pixels in a horizontal row form lines and pixels in a vertical row form columns?

FYI, each frame of a PAL DVD are made up of 720x576 pixels.

Quote:

576 multiplied by 1.7777 (aka: 16:9) equals 1024

In the case of an NTSC DVD, it contains 480 vertical pixels.

480 x 1.7777 = 853.3333
We both know how to multiply!!
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Old 28th October 2004, 22:05   #60  |  Link
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Try not to get yourself bogged down with pixel to line conversions!

Sooner or later the digital to analogue (PAL/NTSC CRT display) element of the image chain will be gone and all we'll be left with is pixels!

Do you have the new version of XviD-1.1.-127-13102004 and more importantly, its DSdec filter installed. If you have, then try playing these "pixel perfect" 720x576 and 720x480 anamorhpic encodes.

They have been generated using my calculations and the same theory apply to cropped encodes!

They've also been tested on Mpeg4/DVD stand-alone players that support the playback of anamorphic .AVI files.


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