madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Warner306]

It is not the end of the world to be stuck with 8-bits. I'm sure even the 8-bit FRC displays have optimized video processing for 10-bit inputs (I don't know about 12-bit), but it can't hurt to send 8-bits.

I read a post from an engineer a while ago that said internal testing of 8-bit FRC and native 10-bit panels was showing such minute differences that 8-bit panels were starting to win out in the cost/benefit analysis for more expensive displays. This is probably why neither Samsung or Sony officially report the bit depth of its displays. huhn found a post a while ago showing that all of the 2017 Samsung 120 Hz panels are 8-bit. I looked up one of them and the professional reviewer reported it as a 10-bit panel, and it passed the 10-bit gradient test. Other parts sites for older models also show some UHD Samsung displays as 8-bit.

[Asmodian]

I know my 2017 LG OLED does better with 8 bit input over 10 or 12 bit (less banding).

[Crimson Wolf]

Originally Posted by XTrojan

Anyone know how you can force Nvidia to switch to 12bit output whenever MadVR switches refresh rate to 23/24 Hz? It's at 8bit everytime so I have to go to settings and change to 12bit.

Is this with a 4K TV? I'm only 1080p but I do not have this problem. I can switch to any refresh rate 23,24,59,60 and 12-bit stays. Even through reboot.

[brazen1]

I read that guide the day you posted it. I thought it was spot on. I can vouch for the Samsung: HDMI Black Level - Normal/Low setting names. I uncheck the 'use inverse telecine' option in NCP. You might want to add the Manage 3D Settings/Power Management Mode = Adaptive. In that Windows Program Settings, I select the 'ADD' button and add every player.exe I use. Also, Configure Surround, PhysX/Processor = Your GPU. Your guide has no faults I can see.

A few driver releases ago, the 12bit no retention after reboot started. This is no fault of madVR or how it matches refresh rates. I suppose it would be cool if madVR forced a bit depth after honoring a refresh rate but why should it? That's on nVidia and if it used to work, it can work again once someone picks up the ball making any madVR 'fix' redundant.

I bet many of the 8bit panels are also 60Hz. Can't believe any native 120Hz/240Hz interpolated panels are only 8bit? I have an older Samsung. It's 10bit. Getting a little off-topic.

[brazen1]

Isn't most 1080p aka SDR 8bit tops? You may be selecting 12bit driver output but you are dithering to 8bit for 1080p or SDR. Only UHD is higher than 8bit. Is this correct?

About the 12bit retention after reboot you say survives.…. Using RGB FULL or 4:2:2 Limited?

[Asmodian]

madVR uses 32 bit math and 16 bit surfaces, for output it can dither to any bit depth, 10 bit or lower. The GPU can then output 12 bit SDR 1080p or 8 bit HDR 2160p, bit depth, resolution, and HDR are not necessarily connected. The source bit depth is important only for the quality of the source, once we convert to RGB and scale for display we have >8 bit data even if we start with an 8 bit 1080p bluray.

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Asked about this some years ago and madshi said 10-bit wasn't exposed as something that could be switched to outside of Nvidia's control panel. Maybe now that he has a contact he might be able to suggest this as a feature to add.. I hope they get 23Hz profiling and the bit depth bugs fixed this year...

Wouldn't that be nice. I've got the frame drop/repeat thing down to something I can live with but it's nowhere near perfect. It's watchable...that's about it. And yes, the fact that it's resetting 12 bit on every reboot isn't very fun.

[Mano]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I prefer XySubFilter, though I believe there is a known issue madshi would like fixed I never encounter any problems with it and I am not sure what the issue is. It renders to madVR in higher quality than other options. xy-VSFilter over VSFilter for performance.

Reading that thread, XySubFilter and xy-VSFilter are difference entities right?

[XTrojan]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

madVR uses 32 bit math and 16 bit surfaces, for output it can dither to any bit depth, 10 bit or lower. The GPU can then output 12 bit SDR 1080p or 8 bit HDR 2160p, bit depth, resolution, and HDR are not necessarily connected. The source bit depth is important only for the quality of the source, once we convert to RGB and scale for display we have >8 bit data even if we start with an 8 bit 1080p bluray.

Unsure what you mean by 8bit HDR 2160p, are you saying that with HDR 2160p enabled it always outputs at 8bit? The infoscreen states 10bit for me.

Either way, most people here seem to agree that if source content is 10bit or not, outputting 8bit instead of 12bit via GPU seems to be negligible?

[gfxnow]

Originally Posted by Mano

Reading that thread, XySubFilter and xy-VSFilter are difference entities right?

Yes they are different. xy-VSFilter is the old school one. XySubFilter is theoretically better with MadVR and should be updated soon to address the italics bug discovered by Madshi.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by XTrojan

Unsure what you mean by 8bit HDR 2160p, are you saying that with HDR 2160p enabled it always outputs at 8bit? The infoscreen states 10bit for me.

I am saying that with HDR enabled it always outputs whatever you tell it to. HDR does not require it to be 8, 10, or 12 bit.

[sat4all]

Hi fellas,

My IPTV provider just added some 4k streams for the wordcup using HLG HDR, I guess it's an open standard format like HDR10.
Is there any plans for support with LAV and madVR? Does nvidia even support it?

[veggav]

i'm back with one more question:

Is it possible in the automatic switch to have it based on the source?
If 720p output 720p, 1080p output 1080p and 2160 output 2160?
And also have 23hz and 60hz each?

[huhn]

not sure why you should do that but yes.

just type all the modes in. but as a reminder i highly recommend to only use the native resolution of your screen and nothing else.

[SirSwede]

Is there anyway to change the settings by mistake from one instance of Madvr running on one computer in your home network, to another instance of Madvr running on another computer in your home network, without having actively enabled LAN access?

[SirSwede]

Is it just me or is NGU AA Chroma sharper than NGU Standard Chroma?

[huhn]

do you even look at an image that expose this?

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by sat4all

Hi fellas,

My IPTV provider just added some 4k streams for the wordcup using HLG HDR, I guess it's an open standard format like HDR10.
Is there any plans for support with LAV and madVR? Does nvidia even support it?

HLG support would be nice. It is starting to become more common for TV broadcasts.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by brazen1

I read that guide the day you posted it. I thought it was spot on. I can vouch for the Samsung: HDMI Black Level - Normal/Low setting names. I uncheck the 'use inverse telecine' option in NCP. You might want to add the Manage 3D Settings/Power Management Mode = Adaptive.

I bet many of the 8bit panels are also 60Hz. Can't believe any native 120Hz/240Hz interpolated panels are only 8bit? I have an older Samsung. It's 10bit. Getting a little off-topic.

The power management setting could be mentioned. I don't think 3D needs to be discussed.

What display manufacturers are measuring when comparing 8-bit and 10-bit panels is noise. The video already has some noise, so detecting dithering noise is even harder to do. Their measurements seem to be showing imperceptible levels of noise in 8-bit panels compared to 10-bit panels, so they are still building 8-bit FRC panels, and some of these are high-end 120 Hz models. In some cases, you don't know until used parts are available what the actual bit depth is.

There is an article here from two years ago discussing this issue: https://www.avsforum.com/determining...nel-bit-depth/

[huhn]

most of the high end are 8 bit and why not?

and modern 60 hz UHD screen are usually 10 bit even cheaper ones in the past nearly every FHD screen was 120 hz even the entry level ones.
and about UHD 240 hz not existing in consumer space... no not with VA these panels can't do 120 hz properly maybe in 5 years maybe with OLED.
and maybe 120 hz at 10 bit is not doable yet with v by one.
and the last "and" every site that looks for banding to see if a panel is 8 bit or 10 bit doesn't understand bit deep even a 6 bit screen will not produce banding if it is run correctly. this has gotten so bad that a FHD 6 bit FRC screen gets similar rating for bit deep as a 10 bit or 8 bit UHD screen and UHD helps a lot in hiding dither noise.

edit: for you warner my pana uses normal, full and auto, auto is working fine on my set.