madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by huhn

until the technology is out and proofed nothing changes it's just marketing garaged and you are falling for it.

Yeah, the market ain't switching up like he thinks it's going to. Pipe dreams.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Yeah, the market ain't switching up like he thinks it's going to. Pipe dreams.

Its not, but it should. OLED is nothing but a gateway technology for TVs. Its far from perfect. But the companies invested too much into it to treat it like that, because OLED manufacturing is complex and expensive, so they have to sell it like the absolute premium product, and pretend its the bestest ever.

Proper MicroLED should resolve most of the shortcomings that OLED faces, but it'll be a couple more years, and be very expensive at the start.

Dual-LCDs are also a gateway technology, just like OLED, but if it works as expected (and the basic technology is sound, and prototypes looked good so far), then it should overall be a better compromise both in cost and disadvantages over OLED. I would happily trade in a bit of black level performance, that 99% of users are not going to care about anyway due to lighting conditions, over higher brightness and no burn-ins.

And re: higher brightness, the problem with single-layer LCDs is the contrast. You can absolutely put better backlights into any LCD and get the same level of peak brightness, but with ordinary LCD contrast (maybe 3000:1 on a VA panel), you also greatly inflate the black levels. Hence Full-Array Local Dimming, but that has too large zones and still causes Haloing/Clouding even in the best screens if the brightness is turned up too high.

Dual-LCDs resolve that by practically having an insanely high static contrast. You can put high-powered backlights in without needing FALD-like technologies, since the LCD filter just takes care of it.

In a decade time, or so, I would expect (or maybe hope) mid-range TVs to use Dual-LCDs, and High-Ends using MicroLED.

[huhn]

they still have to use FALD or they have to pump as an example 1000 nits at every pixel even through only a small number of pixel need that and you don't want this it's extremely inefficient and you have to remove the heat.

i can't disagree about the contrast not the claimed numbers but in general it will be better that's solid and makes sense.

OLED is supposed to be far more power efficient then LED and we don't have true pure OLED yet or forever.
we know that LG coated WRGB are everything but efficient.

[mclingo]

ah yes, a new player i the OLED vs LCD war, now its OLED vs LCD vs DUAL LCD. I dont really care which one wins out as long as we all win PQ wise, however after years of being told LCD is now close to OLED and finding the opposite in a ptich black room i'm still scpetical.

For me pure blacks are far from unimportant as I watch in a pitch black room with no bias light when I'm watching a blockbuster, not so much for other stuff, its essential for me to only see the movie and not the black bars at all so the movie floats in thin air in a dark scene like a star field, ive sat in front on a Q90 and Q85r with local dimming on full and nominal brightness and backlight settings and I still see the grey bars in pitch black.

I wont be moving from OLED until we get zero % blacks, blacks over nits for me anytime, mine is only 400 nits and its plenty for most stuff, 700 would be the sweat spot for me but my current TV has 3D so i'm keeping it as long as I can.

also - 4.5 yeas and no burn in....

[jojo54000]

Hello,
Could someone explain to me how the "dynamic hdr" introduced by madvr works?
can that completely replace hdr10 + metadata when available in a movie?
and if so, is it better than hdr10 +?
if I understood correctly to activate the dynamic hdr of madvr, you must activate the tonemapping in the specifications of the target screen, and check the box "output video in hdr format", is that correct?
on the other hand, I noticed that it did not work if no hdr10 / hdr10 + metadata was present in the source file, so dynamic hdr uses hdr10 metadata?
Thanks.

[Magik Mark]

I'm trying to move subtitles to the bottom of the screen. It seems I can't figure it out why sometimes it is successful and there are times it set on the bottom of the image especially letter boxed videos.

It would be nice if it just settle on the black bars

I'm using xysubfilter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[huhn]

it doesn't work with every type of subtitles and it will never move subtitle with positioning information.

[toki]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Sounds like you should be fine tuning or calibrating your set, that's always the staring point and this is not the place to be for that. Nice TV though.

Thank you, that suggestion really helps me with my fine tuning of madVR settings and I will now try that. I really appreciate the help.

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Viewing Angles are an old LCD problem and there is a lot of technology to work around it, so I'm not all that worried. And afterall, how off-center do viewers usually sit.

Viewing angles are still a problem for VA panels. Every few months I visit a store to look at the sets, and I am still able to guess which sets are LCD without looking at the stickers just by the colour shift in dark areas. And the bigger the screen the more obvious the issue, I don't even have to be off-center to see it on the edges.

Originally Posted by jojo54000

Could someone explain to me how the "dynamic hdr" introduced by madvr works?
can that completely replace hdr10 + metadata when available in a movie?
and if so, is it better than hdr10 +?

madVR doesn't support HDR10+, so its own dynamic tone mapping is all it can use, and yes, its goal is to approach the same quality as HDR10+ with just HDR10 and scene+frame analysis. Explaining all the details of how it works is too complicated for me.

Originally Posted by jojo54000

if I understood correctly to activate the dynamic hdr of madvr, you must activate the tonemapping in the specifications of the target screen, and check the box "output video in hdr format", is that correct?

That's correct. You also have to specify your display's actual peak brightness. For some displays, if you want to totally avoid their own tone mapping you have to specify a lower value that depends on the display's internal processing setup (those values can sometimes be found on model-specific forum threads).

Originally Posted by jojo54000

on the other hand, I noticed that it did not work if no hdr10 / hdr10 + metadata was present in the source file, so dynamic hdr uses hdr10 metadata?
Thanks.

madVR uses metadata to detect that a source is HDR. Theoretically, madVR's dynamic tonemapping could work even without metadata if you inform it manually that the source is HDR and inform it of the colour space, as it analyses the frames to measure all the values it needs, but I haven't tested it.

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by mclingo

ah yes, a new player i the OLED vs LCD war, now its OLED vs LCD vs DUAL LCD. I dont really care which one wins out as long as we all win PQ wise, however after years of being told LCD is now close to OLED and finding the opposite in a ptich black room i'm still scpetical.

For me pure blacks are far from unimportant as I watch in a pitch black room with no bias light when I'm watching a blockbuster, not so much for other stuff, its essential for me to only see the movie and not the black bars at all so the movie floats in thin air in a dark scene like a star field, ive sat in front on a Q90 and Q85r with local dimming on full and nominal brightness and backlight settings and I still see the grey bars in pitch black.

I wont be moving from OLED until we get zero % blacks, blacks over nits for me anytime, mine is only 400 nits and its plenty for most stuff, 700 would be the sweat spot for me but my current TV has 3D so i'm keeping it as long as I can.

also - 4.5 yeas and no burn in....

If your oled doesn't have burn in, Then you're not using it very much.

My friend recently got an oled laptop during BF, and he already has burnin due to his linux consoles.

LMCL is an all day, all purpose panel.

And it may not matter what YOU WANT, If the Color-Graders ditch OLED, which is what they are doing, then that's the end of OLED.

Watching a movie in pitch black is not practical, anytime there's HDR element on screen it really digs into your eyes painfully. And I personally very much like to see my soda and not spill it.

HDR is hard specced to be viewed in a 5 nit environments. And in a 5 nit room, even 0.01nit blacks look almost entirely black. and future LMCL will do even better than that.

Look at it this way, Oled is like a 10/10 girlfriend, that can't cook. LMCL is like a 9/10 girlfriend, that's a pro chef, does the dishes AND gives great massages.

[mclingo]

You coulnt be more wrong my friend.

I use my TV every day for 6+ hours, more at the weekend, I have no burn in as I know the TV's limitations, dont leave static stuff on the screen too long and leave your TV in standby mode overnight so it can complete its compensation cycles, rocket science this isnt mate.

Pitch black viewing impractical, have you been to a cinema?

Too bright?, turn it down...

Cheers but i'll keep my 10/10 girlfreind and just get a takeaway.

[Magik Mark]

Originally Posted by huhn

it doesn't work with every type of subtitles and it will never move subtitle with positioning information.

I only use srt. No positioning info


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[huhn]

there was something about italic or so it been a couple of years.

not sure if it ever got fixed i guess the last beta build from madshi fixed that no guarantee here sorry. so try a newer test version of xy subfilter.

feels kinda odd to talk about madVR related topics in the madVR thread.

[mclingo]

yeah your're right, however, pretty sure MADSHI has abandoned this thead now, others have said it too on other forums. Whether its our own fault for spamming it with none related stuff is hard to say but we've all gone off piste from time to time.

if he comes back after the release then maybe we should push other stuff to the general or driver thread to try keep it clean, we could really do with a mods help with that but they pretty much dont exist at the moment.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by mclingo

dont leave static stuff on the screen too long and leave your TV in standby mode overnight so it can complete its compensation cycles, rocket science this isnt mate.

On screen elements, brightness, software burn in prevention and panel all play a part here.. We had an LG C8 get burn in playing a demo that showed the Dolby logo for a few seconds every few minutes or so. Phillips said its looking to basically resolve burn in issues and putting a large amount of cash into developing a solution which hopefully it licenses out to others.

Originally Posted by mclingo

yeah your're right, however, pretty sure MADSHI has abandoned this thead now.

Don't say stuff like this it's untrue. He's finishing up the final build but likely will still be dealing with Envy stuff for a while.

[mclingo]

sounds like a duff panel to me, I forget to put my browser in full screen mode sometimes and my static bookmarks bar and menu can be sat there for ages before I spot it, still no screen burn after 4.5 years of this.

I get that you have to take care of your OLED and that you cant just turn it on and leave it llike an LCD but for me the PQ is worth it, I also have a samsung LCD.

i've found if I follow these simple rules i get no screen burn but maybe brighter some screens are more susceptable.

1. auto hide win task bar
2. everything in dark mode
3. put web pages in full screen mode if i'm on it for a while.
4. set screen savers for 3 minutes
5. remove OSD from games where possible


you're right of course that was a silly thing to say, he's probably not but he's not posted anything at all in nearly a year, it certainly feels like he has sometimes.

[Yog_Sothoth]

Hello, guys. I have a problem with madvr. For some time now (about several months) I have a terrible jitter on videos which are not normal 24fps videos, i.e. 25fps, 50fps, or 60fps. I just reinstalled my Windows, installed new k-lite codec pack, left all the settings to default, and the problem occurred again. It doesn't seem to occur with over renderers, such as EVR. I've tried using different players, tried to change some settings, mostly it didn't help. But I discovered that enabling "disable automatic source type detection" in the deinterlacing section and setting it to "force film mode" helped to partly solve the problem. That one option allows to dispose of the jitter, but only for DVD-videos, in other problematic ones, the problem stays the same. So I have no idea, why this is happening and when it started, but all had been fine before. I also have a receiver, through which my monitor is connected, so maybe that's relevant somehow.

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by mclingo

sounds like a duff panel to me, I forget to put my browser in full screen mode sometimes and my static bookmarks bar and menu can be sat there for ages before I spot it, still no screen burn after 4.5 years of this.

I get that you have to take care of your OLED and that you cant just turn it on and leave it llike an LCD but for me the PQ is worth it, I also have a samsung LCD.

i've found if I follow these simple rules i get no screen burn but maybe brighter some screens are more susceptable.

1. auto hide win task bar
2. everything in dark mode
3. put web pages in full screen mode if i'm on it for a while.
4. set screen savers for 3 minutes
5. remove OSD from games where possible

Those are NOT simple rules, Oled owners live in a bubble similar to Stockholm syndrome, They've been babying a TV for so long, that they have no perspective on just how impractical the device is.

Once LMCL comes out and everyone gets on the right train, You'll very quickly realize how batshit crazy you are for having owned an oled to begin with.

Imagine having to press 5 different buttons to roll down your car window, That's oled ownership in a nutshell.

[mclingo]

Hi, could be a number of things, plus jitter could also mean different things too, you might not be properly refresh rate matching or over taxing your CPU or GPU with MADVR / PLAYER / decoding - start by adding your kit list to your signiture like mine so we can see what you're dealing with. Then when playing a movie press CONTROL+J and take a screen shot of the readout, when you post it dont upload the image, using a URL link.

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

Those are NOT simple rules, Oled owners live in a bubble similar to Stockholm syndrome, They've been babying a TV for so long, that they have no perspective on just how impractical the device is.

Once LMCL comes out and everyone gets on the right train, You'll very quickly realize how batshit crazy you are for having owned an oled to begin with.

Imagine having to press 5 different buttons to roll down your car window, That's oled ownership in a nutshell.

Sorry but thats just nonsense and I think you know it is so i'm not going get into a protracted discussion about it.