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Old 3rd August 2019, 17:54   #57021  |  Link
foozoor
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It's dead... like madVR.
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Old 3rd August 2019, 18:03   #57022  |  Link
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Old 4th August 2019, 04:12   #57023  |  Link
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Oh here we go.
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Old 4th August 2019, 10:03   #57024  |  Link
Knight77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
It sounds like an issue with the 3D LUT. Do you get correct colors without the 3D LUT? Have you tried checking report BT.2020 to display under calibration?

With a Panasonic GZ950, you should get a better picture by sending the HDR source to the display with passthrough. Panasonic follows the SDR range 1:1 with the PQ curve and does its gamut mapping with correct colorimetry. It can also do dynamic tone mapping of the specular highlights in each scene. That, or compress the HDR source with pixel shaders in madVR and send it as HDR to the display.
Warner306 thank you for the reply (big fan of yours by a long time )!
I have deleted the previous 3D Luts, since they were created working on my previous TV, and selected "This TV is already calibrated" with BT2020 and gamma 2.2 . I haven't tried report BT.2020 but I'll do! Actually to me it's not really clear this function...

I start having doubts about another setting and the doubts comes from many post here:

- madvr is configured with 10 bits or more (the TV support 10 and 12 bits) and fullscreen windowed. When I play something it reports the bits correctly.

- I configured NV control panel to 4K, 60hz, RGB 8bit when I'm not watching anything and 4K, 23hz and 12bit during vision (again mainly 4K HDR content).

BUT I found more than one post like this:

Quote:
I've been doing further testing and managed to capture better screenshots (download and present them at 1:1 resolution) to exemplify my findings:

NV HDR triggered by madVR (output 10 bit) BANDING
NV HDR triggered by madVR (output 8 bit) NO BANDING
OS HDR enabled at Windows 10 (output 10 bit) NO BANDING (no screenshot available, too bright)

I've also noticed that with OS HDR disabled, and sending the metadata at madVR (NV HDR), the OSD only shows D3D11 fullscreen windowed (10 bit) when MPC-HC's seek bar isn't showing, otherwise it shows (8 bit). Keeps alternating from (10 bit) to (8 bit) when the mouse cursor moves down to the seek bar, for example.

But when with the HDR toggle enabled at the Win 10 display settings and madVR no sending metadata to the display (OS HDR), the OSD always shows D3D11 fullscreen windowed (10 bit), even when you move the cursor to the seek bar, or exits fullscreen. It ALWAYS shows (10 bit) at the OSD.

And, at last, D3D11's fullscreen exclusive always shows D3D11 exclusive (10 bit) and has NO BANDING.

So, to conclude, D3D11 exclusive NV HDR = Win10 OS HDR (both banding free)

Hope this helps further understanding why Windows' HDR toggle results in perfect picture without banding, and madVR sending the metadata to the display (NV HDR) on windowed mode doesn't.
Or this

Quote:
According to thos post https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...287#pid2616287 setting 12 bit in NVCP will cause banding, and 8 bit should be selected.
I did that and I still get banding.
So...is this something of the past or to avoid banding we should keep 8bit? I'm confused. I thought that since the TV support 10/12bit I should aim for that. Also about FSE, is it obligatory?
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Old 4th August 2019, 13:43   #57025  |  Link
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For a 4K UHD display (Sony 940E) that switches into HDR mode automatically, what is the proper setting for the "calibration" tab? Should i select already calibrated to rec709 or bt2020? I have HDR being passed through to the display via madVR (Nvidia 1070.) I watch both 1080p bluray and 2160p HDR via madVR.
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Old 4th August 2019, 14:18   #57026  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight77 View Post
Warner306 thank you for the reply (big fan of yours by a long time )!
I have deleted the previous 3D Luts, since they were created working on my previous TV, and selected "This TV is already calibrated" with BT2020 and gamma 2.2 . I haven't tried report BT.2020 but I'll do! Actually to me it's not really clear this function...

I start having doubts about another setting and the doubts comes from many post here:

- madvr is configured with 10 bits or more (the TV support 10 and 12 bits) and fullscreen windowed. When I play something it reports the bits correctly.

- I configured NV control panel to 4K, 60hz, RGB 8bit when I'm not watching anything and 4K, 23hz and 12bit during vision (again mainly 4K HDR content).

BUT I found more than one post like this:



Or this



So...is this something of the past or to avoid banding we should keep 8bit? I'm confused. I thought that since the TV support 10/12bit I should aim for that. Also about FSE, is it obligatory?
Windows 1903 is known to have issues with banding and the occasional video driver before that, but there shouldn't be any difference between 10/12-bits and 8-bits on most displays. Those with LG OLEDs get better results with 8-bits, but that doesn't mean all OLEDs will do better with 8-bits. Try both and determine if you can see a difference. The dithering added by madVR should make the two bit depths look nearly identical.

For your color gamut issue, almost all SDR content is mastered to BT.709 and the TV should ship set up to handle BT.709 sources, unless you deliberately changed the TV color profile to BT.2020 or DCI-P3. If it has an auto setting, I would select that and the display should automatically select the correct color profile.
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Old 4th August 2019, 14:19   #57027  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post
For a 4K UHD display (Sony 940E) that switches into HDR mode automatically, what is the proper setting for the "calibration" tab? Should i select already calibrated to rec709 or bt2020? I have HDR being passed through to the display via madVR (Nvidia 1070.) I watch both 1080p bluray and 2160p HDR via madVR.
BT.709
Gamma 2.20

Those are most common.
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Old 4th August 2019, 17:28   #57028  |  Link
Knight77
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
BT.709
Gamma 2.20

Those are most common.
So wait...in madvr "already calibrated" setting should I select those too? Even if I'm using MPC-BE and madvr just to watch 2160p HDR and my TV switch to BT2020?
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Old 4th August 2019, 18:17   #57029  |  Link
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Hi.

Are there any screen shots to see how madVR's scaling algorithms compare?

Also i'm all new to this so please bare with me. If I wished to watch a 4K HDR movie without HDR, do you simply select 'passthrough HDR to display' and uncheck 'send HDR metadata to the display'?

As I've tried this expecting the 4K image to look similar to a 1080p pic and it doesn't. I used the same picture settings for each, yet the 4K looked a little washed out in comparison.

Last edited by Wull; 4th August 2019 at 18:50. Reason: added extra question
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Old 4th August 2019, 19:19   #57030  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Wull View Post
If I wished to watch a 4K HDR movie without HDR, do you simply select 'passthrough HDR to display' and uncheck 'send HDR metadata to the display'?
No. To watch HDR video as SDR you need to convert it to SDR. Do not select "passthrough HDR to display". If what you want is to watch the HDR video as your (SDR) display presents it your settings are correct but the video will appear washed out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wull View Post
As I've tried this expecting the 4K image to look similar to a 1080p pic and it doesn't. I used the same picture settings for each, yet the 4K looked a little washed out in comparison.
Yes, you need to convert HDR to SDR for it to look correct on a SDR display. madVR does this pretty well but it will never look exactly like the SDR master. Mastering is a creative process that results in different video for SDR and HDR.
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Old 4th August 2019, 20:03   #57031  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Knight77 View Post
So wait...in madvr "already calibrated" setting should I select those too? Even if I'm using MPC-BE and madvr just to watch 2160p HDR and my TV switch to BT2020?
The calibration settings only refer to the display's SDR mode. HDR content is passthrough unless you select pixel shaders with SDR output.
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Old 4th August 2019, 20:15   #57032  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
No. To watch HDR video as SDR you need to convert it to SDR. Do not select "passthrough HDR to display". If what you want is to watch the HDR video as your (SDR) display presents it your settings are correct but the video will appear washed out.



Yes, you need to convert HDR to SDR for it to look correct on a SDR display. madVR does this pretty well but it will never look exactly like the SDR master. Mastering is a creative process that results in different video for SDR and HDR.
Thank's for explaining that. Which setting within madVR do I select to convert HDR to SDR? Would it be this? (let madVR decide: Sends HDR data to displays capable of HDR, otherwise coverts to SDR using pixel shader math). My Display is capable of HDR. I was just hoping to watch a 4K image with no HDR.

Last edited by Wull; 4th August 2019 at 20:26.
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Old 4th August 2019, 23:50   #57033  |  Link
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My Display is capable of HDR. I was just hoping to watch a 4K image with no HDR.
Each time I try to respond to this statement I just stop short lol.
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Old 5th August 2019, 00:38   #57034  |  Link
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Maybe Wull wants to compare HDR and SDR to show a comparison to other people?
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Old 5th August 2019, 00:39   #57035  |  Link
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Sends HDR data to displays capable of HDR, otherwise coverts to SDR using pixel shader math). My Display is capable of HDR. I was just hoping to watch a 4K image with no HDR.
Since your display supports HDR you would need to set madVR to convert to SDR using pixel shader math all the time.
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Old 5th August 2019, 02:40   #57036  |  Link
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Each time I try to respond to this statement I just stop short lol.
That sounds like the definition of HDR on a projector.
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Old 5th August 2019, 10:51   #57037  |  Link
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Windows 1903 is known to have issues with banding
also with the the proper hotfix ?
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Old 5th August 2019, 11:30   #57038  |  Link
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I used the same picture settings for each, yet the 4K looked a little washed out in comparison.
HDR -> SDR shader , the image is still HDR fitted to a different signal output to the TV.

THE TV could be in SDR, but it's outputting what the HDR signal should look like (in HDR) as rendered by Madvr.

The HDR to SDR shader is advantageous because Madvr currently does a better job tonemapping than many, if not most tvs for HDR content.

You are not suppose to compare an HDR file to SDR file, they will never look the same, because they are color-graded differently to different specifications.

HDR to SDR does not chop off the HDR and leave you with an SDR image.

It's taking an HDR image, and sending it in an SDR signal that the TV can understand in its SDR mode, but the image is still HDR.
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Old 5th August 2019, 12:50   #57039  |  Link
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also with the the proper hotfix ?
I'm sure it will be fixed, but it was/is an issue.
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Old 5th August 2019, 13:21   #57040  |  Link
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I'm sure it will be fixed, but it was/is an issue.
sorry to insist, it should be fixed, the hotfix was released last week. As i posted days ago.

IMO keeping to state: "there is, was, willl bugs" creates just confusion on users. It looks like more a win10 blaming without reasons

another story if there is something tested with hotfix installed and the bug persists......
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