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Old 5th July 2022, 21:04   #8541  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by excellentswordfight View Post
I just had a look at MulticoreWares website and it seems a lot more focused on AI/ML than video encoding, same goes for their job openings.
That's always been a big focus of MCW, along with performance engineering in general. Codecs were never more than a fraction of their total business.
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Old 5th July 2022, 21:04   #8542  |  Link
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I mean I had the case where someone complained about quality and then someone asked him if he could try a higher bitrate and this person then was really thankful because a higher bitrate apparently improved quality a lot in his case. Quite the trick once you know it....
As they say in third world countries. Who uses low bitrate? Software pirate that used xvid interlaced DVD.
He doesn't know much about filming, framing, editing but he tries to sell something under the table.
There is still a 4 EURO DVD, not necessarily with voiceover. Then came x264 and x265. For years it wasn't as successful as xvid. Market collusion?
Initially x265 was better for low bitrates than Mainconcept HEVC in low-cost editors. Everyone disliked the fact that the copy of the original isn't webcam quality.
Youtube is now censored. Fired journalists pretend to contribute something in 4K. It no longer needs xvid, x264, x265.
Who needs Bluray for 16EURO today in Europe. There is no video DVD rental. We have pay TV for any high bitrate programs, websites, metadata as ECO
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Old 5th July 2022, 21:04   #8543  |  Link
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IBC? I think you meant NAB. It can't be IBC 'cause it's in September and I'm gonna be there in person this year, hence my post: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=184144

(which by the way is still valid as I'm gonna meet with steipal, momocampo and emcodem, but I'd love to met with more people from Doom9).
I'm planning on going myself! Let's have a meetup.
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Old 5th July 2022, 21:11   #8544  |  Link
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Originally Posted by rwill View Post
Well Video Compression is not a good business.

No one wants to pay more than a couple bucks for some encoder license, I mean there are ones free available.
If the free encoders suck people will complain but no one wants to sponsor development.
No one wants to pay for decoders, they already paid for the content. Some dont even pay for the content.
No one wants to buy extra hardware for encoding, why is a quad core CPU from 2012 not sufficient again ?
Some People with no clue mistake video compression for modern magic and then think they have three wishes free.
People then have elevated expectations about video quality, cant be hard to do better right ?
People don't want to spent time to learn about quality tunes, rather they want something like WinZip.
If you are talking about a consumer market, yes, there's not a lot of money to be made in compression. The general class of workstation encoding tools largely vanished around a decade ago. To my regret; there are all sorts of high-touch operations that were easier to do back then which are much more challenging to do now. I barely did any command-line encoding the first half of my career, and now I barely do anything but.

However, enterprise and broadcast encoding is still a huge markets. At scale, bandwidth becomes quite expensive. And for RF-limited transmission like cable/sat/OTA, better compression=more channels=more revenue. A big cable company can spend $100M upgrading encoders with a healthy ROI.

Consumers and hobbyists largely have to make due to with plugging in scraps of open-source code funded by bigger corps these days. Advanced preprocessing is much more an enthusiast domain, but codecs themselves have gotten too complex for small ad-hoc teams to do the kinds of intense innovation like x265 had in its early days.
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Old 5th July 2022, 23:18   #8545  |  Link
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Who uses low bitrate? Software pirate
Not really, given how crowded satellites like HotBird are and that many many many TVs all over the globe rely on them to broadcast their contents, it makes sense to keep the development of new codecs ongoing.
And remember, it's those TVs that in the end are gonna pay the big bucks to get their fair share of bitrate and with ever growing resolutions, bit depth and frame-rates, encoders just need to get better.

Then you have a totally separate market which is VOD with streaming services which are also trying to get the best possible compression at the lowest possible bitrate 'cause CNDs ain't cheap either. I often say that satellite bitrate is hugely expensive, but think about companies like Amazon, Netflix etc and how many users they have and how much bandwidth they "spend" with their CDNs to serve all the customers.

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I'm planning on going myself! Let's have a meetup.
Totally!
I'll PM my number just in case and I'll come up with more detailed info as the date approaches.

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enterprise and broadcast encoding is still a huge markets. At scale, bandwidth becomes quite expensive. And for RF-limited transmission like cable/sat/OTA, better compression=more channels=more revenue. A big cable company can spend $100M upgrading encoders with a healthy ROI.
Absolutely.
I work one step ahead of the final distribution guys, so the files I encode are all high bitrate mezzanine files that are gonna be re-encoded for broadcasting by live encoders most of the time, but I know that the final distribution guys are always trying to get the best possible result 'cause unlike people in the team I work with, they're gonna have to deliver to the actual consumers, so they can't have the "luxury" to be like: "Oh, UHD, H.264, 500 Mbit/s 10bit, that will do" like the files I create but they're gonna have to find the best possible way to squeeze all that in a 25 Mbit/s H.265 stream encoded live.

Anyway, I'm digressing, the thing is that you're right, there's still a big market besides the consumer-niche.
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Old 6th July 2022, 05:28   #8546  |  Link
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Not really, given how crowded satellites like HotBird are and that many many many TVs all over the globe rely on them to broadcast their contents, it makes sense to keep the development of new codecs ongoing.
Compare the markets from 20 years ago. How many satellites have come and changed?
I've been to orange recently. You must have TV decoder, this will lower your bills. How does a TV set-top box work? Yes, the decoder is h264 but if you don't have optical fiber for high bitrates, you won't watch TV. What low data rate and why did you buy 16K TV? Is this data downsizing on satellites?
Last, how does this relate to the x265 codec. It's a codec used in simple converters.

Last edited by Jamaika; 6th July 2022 at 05:31.
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Old 6th July 2022, 13:35   #8547  |  Link
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Compare the markets from 20 years ago. How many satellites have come and changed?
Not many have been launched cause it's crazily expensive to do that.

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I've been to orange recently. You must have TV decoder, this will lower your bills. How does a TV set-top box work? Yes, the decoder is h264 but if you don't have optical fiber for high bitrates, you won't watch TV.
I'm not familiar with orange and their decoders, but most set top box work with satellite dishes and rely on internet only for on demand stuff. In other words, any time you wanna watch a linear channel, you're gonna use the satellite dish. Now, when it comes to transmissions, almost every TV has MPEG-2 for SD, H.264 for FULL HD and H.265 for UHD. In our case it's around 4 Mbit/s for SD, 12 Mbit/s for FULL HD and 25 Mbit/s for UHD but as you probably are aware of, given that no new satellites have been launched and that literally the overwhelming majority of EU TVs are all on Hotbird 13B/13C/13E at 13.0°E whose bandwidth is the same as when the satellites have been originally launched, you can see why getting the lowest possible bitrate is important.
Besides, to those who say that streaming is the future, sure, granted, but not everyone has reliable broadband everywhere, especially those living in rural areas and that's where satellite comes in handy, but even then the biggest limiting factor is the cost: everyone wants UHD channels and there's just not enough bitrate in the satellites to grant it to everyone.




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What low data rate and why did you buy 16K TV? Is this data downsizing on satellites?
Consumers will always want the latest and greatest technologies. If you stick your head in the sand and play dumb, you're never gonna gain new customers or indeed keep the ones that you already have.
Think about it: if no broadcaster updated its infrastructure, we would have been stuck with SD which was no longer competitive. People were buying HD TVs and wanted to watch HD contents. Sure, the bitrate was a problem then like it is now, but broadcasters had to cope with it and begin airing in HD. Then it came FULL HD, adding more struggle to the infrastructure. Right now, it's all about UHD, HDR 50p H.265 which is the standard. You know, imagine a world in which people bought UHD TVs and broadcasters kept airing in FULL HD BT709 SDR 25i or 30i H.264. People would just stop watching TV altogether or indeed complain about it and about the fact that they bought a new shiny TV and that their favourite sport is in FULL HD. And the circle goes on and on and on.


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Originally Posted by Jamaika View Post
Last, how does this relate to the x265 codec. It's a codec used in simple converters.
I think you're by far underestimating how good x26x have become. This is not 2003 when there were dvix/xvid used by private consumers to re-encode their legally purchased MPEG-2 DVDs, this is 2022 where x264 and x265 are at the heart of contents encoded by companies all over the world, especially VOD.
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Old 6th July 2022, 16:14   #8548  |  Link
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x265 v3.5+39-58f46fa4a
Built on July 06, 2022, GCC 11.2.0

https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/.../branch/master

DL:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/wc1t5q2ckc6390j/

Note :

The commit value is wrong due to something upstream at MulticoreWare.

Correct commit number for this release is
20255e6

Last edited by Barough; 7th July 2022 at 10:18.
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Old 7th July 2022, 05:07   #8549  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Last, how does this relate to the x265 codec. It's a codec used in simple converters.
x265 absolutely gets used in enterprise products and for enterprise-scale content. It's not as dominant as x264 is for H.264 encoding (where pretty much everyone but Beamr uses it under the hood), but still a very big deal.
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Old 9th July 2022, 07:56   #8550  |  Link
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Testing of new paid SAT functions LCEVC-X265. We don't have to go to the sat fair.

Code:
ffmpeg -y  -i "Football.mp4" -g 60 -c:v lcevc_hevc  -base_encoder x265 -r
29.97 -s 1920x1080 -b:v 0k -eil_params
"preset=veryslow;rc_pcrf=33;scenecut=0;min-keyint=60;frame-threads=4;residual_mode_priority_enabled=0;temporal_use_priority_map=0" 
football_pCRF33_LCEVC_x265.mp4
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Old 10th July 2022, 03:18   #8551  |  Link
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I've been avoiding doing actual compiling of code for 25 years, but now I've got a modified source version of x265 I need to compile for Windows 64-bit. I did the stuff in the ReadMe (yasm, etc).

I'm trying to run \x265_v3_5_mod\build\vc15-x86_64\make-solutions.bat, but I keep getting a "no visual studio 15" error, and I'm unsure on what Visual Studio I need to have installed. VS 2007 15.9 didn't work. Do I use "Build Tools for Visual Studio 2017 (version 15.0)" or something else/additionally?

As a former Microsoft employee, I wish to decry how tightly coupled Visual Studio is to Windows. I shouldn't have to reboot this many times !
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Old 10th July 2022, 10:46   #8552  |  Link
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AFAIK you need a link with special altered environment (look for that in MSVC Programs group, I'm on Linux from work PC and don't want to boot my ryzen PC with win10 just to check exact link name), from that console you will generate solution files. Also after some modification you could use even MSVC 2019 - https://github.com/DJATOM/x265-aMod/...ld/vc16-x86_64
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Old 11th July 2022, 05:10   #8553  |  Link
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AFAIK you need a link with special altered environment (look for that in MSVC Programs group
That sounds promising. Alas, I do not know what you mean by MSVC Programs group or what to look for there.

Does anyone have the link for that?

Sorry for such basic questions. The last time I really compiled something like this outside of some autobuild environment was before Visual Studio 97 was even released...
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Old 11th July 2022, 18:13   #8554  |  Link
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Trying to remember off the top of my head because I'm booted into Ubuntu at the moment:

Start Menu->Programs->Visual Studio->Tools->Visual Studio Command Line Tools [x86|x64|arm64]

Basically, it's just the Start Menu shortcut to the relevant vcvarsall(%arch%).bat that loads up the compiler environment in cmd.exe. I *think* those are supposed to be automatically installed no matter what configuration options you've chosen for VS, but otherwise you may have to re-run the VS updater and select them.

In general, I wouldn't bother with the build scripts provided by x265, because those are by nature too highly coupled to a specific build environment configuration. If you know how to use CMake directly (and have notes on exactly which x265[mod]-specific configuration options you want), it's much more straightforward, since you can select exactly what you know you're working with (and you don't have to load up a GUI).
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Old 12th July 2022, 12:45   #8555  |  Link
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Wasn't it so that you have to edit the bat files manually to support a specific VS version. I have Visual Studio 2019 Community installed on my PC, and it's apparently "Visual Studio 16 2019" for CMake.
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Old 12th July 2022, 18:51   #8556  |  Link
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If anyone can give me an overview of the best way to go from a source directory to a Windows 64-bit binary, I'll owe you one! I don't mind going the GCC route if that's easier.
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Old 12th July 2022, 20:38   #8557  |  Link
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I don't know if it helps, but I just cloned the repo and edited the make-solutions.bat in the build\vc15-x86_64 folder to this:

cmake -G "Visual Studio 16 2019" ..\..\source && cmake-gui ..\..\source

Then ran make-solutions in the console and it will proceed like it is instructed in the wiki. You might need to point to the path where NASM is and enable assembly in the configure part (assembly is disabled if CMake cannot find NASM). The resulting .sln file can be opened in Visual Studio 2019.
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Old 22nd July 2022, 12:06   #8558  |  Link
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@benwaggoner:

I enjoy using the media-autobuild suite in most cases. You can configure it down to building only what you need. Doesn't have to be a whole ffmpeg, just a separate x265.exe is fine too.
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Old 23rd July 2022, 19:21   #8559  |  Link
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Another vote for MABS. It's incredibly useful (when it's not broken, which is often lol)
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Old 23rd July 2022, 23:27   #8560  |  Link
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@benwaggoner

MABS gets my vote also
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