Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > (HD) DVD, Blu-ray & (S)VCD > DVD & BD Rebuilder

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10th September 2009, 17:16   #5101  |  Link
Furiousflea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Guy View Post
Aratar, logic tells me that if the original disc plays "smooth" in my Oppo, but the rebuild looks "jerky", the player is NOT the issue.

x264 is somehow "corrupting" interlaced content. To me, this is a HUGE issue! What's the point if you get "right sized" vid that you CAN'T WATCH 'cause it looks like DUMP?

Are there any "beta testers" out there with this "Live From Abbey Road" disc that can process it default to BD-25 & see what they get??
You are correct. Although it's not the fault of x264 but the switches that are being used for encoding.

The problem seems to be that BDRB is not deinterlacing to 60fps and then performing interlaced encoding as it should.

It's missing out the deinterlacing part so we just get some crappy zig zag video.

This is basic stuff!
Furiousflea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 17:36   #5102  |  Link
Dark Shikari
x264 developer
 
Dark Shikari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furiousflea View Post
The problem seems to be that BDRB is not deinterlacing to 60fps and then performing interlaced encoding as it should.
You know that 60fps 1080p won't play on said Oppo player to begin with, right?
Dark Shikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 18:52   #5103  |  Link
Race Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
You know that 60fps 1080p won't play on said Oppo player to begin with, right?
The Oppo will play EVERYTHING. That's their "shtick". It's a "universal" player. Feel free to read the "spec sheet": http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/

The "original" video in question is MPEG-4 AVC 1920x1080i 29.97fps. When I hit the Oppo "on screen info" it says "AVC BDMV 29.97 Hz 16:9". That's 1080 "i" NOT "p". When I hit the "on screen info" on my Samsung screen, it says "1920x1080@60Hz" because the Oppo is outputting 1080p which is the native rez of my screen.

The Oppo plays the original PERFECTLY!

The same, "rebuilt" video shows the EXACT same specs as above, but it's UNWATCHABLE 'cause it's stuttering so bad! This particular vid (Abbey Road) just happens to be the "poster child" for seeing the "phenomenon", 'cause of the way it's shot. As I go thru other 1080i discs I've rebuilt, the jerkiness is in ALL of them. The only diff is, most of the other "productions" don't have the excessive panning the Abbey does.

On every 1080p/24 "rebuild" I've done, the Oppo plays them PERFECTLY! On a 24p flick, my TV screen info will say "1920x1080@24Hz" 'cause the Oppo has automatically adjusted it's output.

I have yet to see a "1080p/60" disc. Do you know of one, Dark Shikari? I'll go buy it & report back to you on how the Oppo plays it!
Race Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 20:12   #5104  |  Link
Race Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
You know that 60fps 1080p won't play on said Oppo player to begin with, right?
Hey Mr. Dark Shikari........, I JUST noticed something!

Your "handle" says "x264 Developer".

Instead of worrying about what you think my player does or doesn't play......., why don't you tell jdobbs what "switches he needs to throw" to get a CLEAN 1080i rebuild?

It would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!

See ya!
Race Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 20:16   #5105  |  Link
Dark Shikari
x264 developer
 
Dark Shikari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Guy View Post
The Oppo will play EVERYTHING. That's their "shtick". It's a "universal" player.
I'm good friends with the guy who runs the company that builds the Oppo player, and I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) that H.264 Level 4.2 is out of spec

1080p60 is not 1080p24 or 1080p30.
Dark Shikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 20:23   #5106  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
I'm good friends with the guy who runs the company that builds the Oppo player, and I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) that H.264 Level 4.2 is out of spec

1080p60 is not 1080p24 or 1080p30.
It's just hard to get any respect around here isn't it... Forget the fact that you're one of the primary developers of the best X264 encoder on the planet --- oh yeah, and that you're doing it for free...
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 20:28   #5107  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furiousflea View Post
You are correct. Although it's not the fault of x264 but the switches that are being used for encoding.

The problem seems to be that BDRB is not deinterlacing to 60fps and then performing interlaced encoding as it should.

It's missing out the deinterlacing part so we just get some crappy zig zag video.

This is basic stuff!
If its so basic, maybe you can tell me how to fix it?

I remember when I was asked to add the option to keep interlacing -- and I hesitated for exactly this reason... and it's also the reason it isn't the default and it is a hidden option.

I'd especially like to hear how deinterlacing somehow identifies whether the source is TFF or BFF so it can be reconstructed properly (which is the source of the problem we're discussing) -- especially since 90% of the sources are stored as frames rather than fields in the source even when interlaced.

I know I can scan the source, look at flags and determine field order (assuming it isn't a hybrid source and there isn't any pulldown)... but it's anything but basic. Oh... I forgot to mention... there isn't any guarantee that the field order won't change in the next scene -- so I'd have to scan THE ENTIRE SOURCE. At least that was my experience on the MPEG-2 side (and a major cause of my DVD Rebuilder headaches) where I had to scan and record the flags for every single frame so I could restructure it after encoding.

I just love the concept of adding another complete scan of 40 Gigabytes and recording of flags of the source followed by another complete scan/flag setting of the output to what is already too-long a process.

Everybody's a critic.
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 10th September 2009 at 20:59.
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 20:49   #5108  |  Link
Race Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
It's just hard to get any respect around here isn't it... Forget the fact that you're one of the primary developers of the best X264 encoder on the planet --- oh yeah, and that you're doing it for free...
It's got NOTHING to do with respect, jdobbs! He made a "wise ass" crack about my player that's prolly "state of the ART", instead of contributing a possible solution.

YOUR efforts are GREATLY appreciated!

I'm just pointing out a MAJOR bug in BD-RB.

This bug is SO BAD, if it's not fixed, you'll have to rename your product to "1080p/24-Rebuilder" 'cause there's NO WAY you could say it'll work on ALL Blu Rays.

Hopefully "Mr Dark" can help you out with 1080i fix!

Have a nice day!
Race Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 20:53   #5109  |  Link
Dark Shikari
x264 developer
 
Dark Shikari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Guy View Post
It's got NOTHING to do with respect, jdobbs! He made a "wise ass" crack about my player that's prolly "state of the ART", instead of contributing a possible solution.
Erm, telling you that a 1080p60 video won't play on a chip designed for Level 4.1 playback is "a wise ass crack"?
Dark Shikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:02   #5110  |  Link
Race Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Erm, telling you that a 1080p60 video won't play on a chip designed for Level 4.1 playback is "a wise ass crack"?
WHERE in my "bug report" does the ability to play or not play "1080p/60" have any relevance?

The issue I'm reporting is the POOR quality of "MPEG-4 AVC 1920x1080i 29.97fps" rebuilds. Nothing more. I don't know how to make it any clearer!
Race Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:03   #5111  |  Link
drmih
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 590
This so called MAJOR bug effects how many discs?? All of us happy people who have done loads of discs which play perfectly have a different opinion to you of this great software. As your player spec pages says "* Compatibility with user-encoded contents or user-created discs is on a best-effort basis with no guarantee due to the variation of media, software and techniques used." - it's a pity the same consideration isn't extended to jdobbs and Dark Shikari!
drmih is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:04   #5112  |  Link
Dark Shikari
x264 developer
 
Dark Shikari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Guy View Post
WHERE in my "bug report" does the ability to play or not play "1080p/60" have any relevance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Guy
The problem seems to be that BDRB is not deinterlacing to 60fps
Dark Shikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:05   #5113  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Guy View Post
It's got NOTHING to do with respect, jdobbs! He made a "wise ass" crack about my player that's prolly "state of the ART", instead of contributing a possible solution.

YOUR efforts are GREATLY appreciated!

I'm just pointing out a MAJOR bug in BD-RB.

This bug is SO BAD, if it's not fixed, you'll have to rename your product to "1080p/24-Rebuilder" 'cause there's NO WAY you could say it'll work on ALL Blu Rays.

Hopefully "Mr Dark" can help you out with 1080i fix!

Have a nice day!
If we're going to talk about "wise ass" -- I'd ask that you please re-read this post and look at it from my perspective. When did terms like "beta" and freeware lose their meaning? Things get fixed -- but they get fixed when they are discovered and reported -- I've had all of a couple of days to look at this one (while, by the way, I'm busting my ass with a real job).

Saying "rename your product to 1080p/24-Rebuilder" isn't "wise-ass"? (Smiley faces don't always cover an insult)

Honestly, I don't know why I do this. Whip me! Beat me! Make me write bad checks! (because I'm obviously a glutton for punishment)
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 10th September 2009 at 21:20.
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:11   #5114  |  Link
drmih
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 590
@jdobbs

Did you ever discover what was the issue with Universal discs and bd-9 on the Sony? We know that the same image plays fine on a bd-25 so it's a Sony firmware issue but it was more a case of curiosity. I have tried various discs (which tend to have PiP) by including and excluding the seconday video, and with secondary audio which can and can't be processed. However, all fail to play the main audio on bd-9. Rather than PiP, is it the menu system or U-Control which could be confusing the Sony's?
drmih is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:15   #5115  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmih View Post
@jdobbs

Did you ever discover what was the issue with Universal discs and bd-9 on the Sony? We know that the same image plays fine on a bd-25 so it's a Sony firmware issue but it was more a case of curiosity. I have tried various discs (which tend to have PiP) by including and excluding the seconday video, and with secondary audio which can and can't be processed. However, all fail to play the main audio on bd-9. Rather than PiP, is it the menu system or U-Control which could be confusing the Sony's?
Since the exact same image works when written to BD-25 -- it has to be related to how the Sony works with the BD-9, and not the structure of the BD-9 itself. One option would be for me to remove the secondary video and also remove any references to it in the MPLS... but that still wouldn't be a successful backup since the PiP would be missing.

But more clearly -- "No" I don't know why it is doing it. I wish I did. It's on the list of "do some investigation" items I'm keeping (its a fairly extensive list).
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 10th September 2009 at 21:18.
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:23   #5116  |  Link
Race Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Mr Dark......, you misquoted me with:

"Originally Posted by Race Guy
The problem seems to be that BDRB is not deinterlacing to 60fps"


That's the "Flea's" line, NOT mine.

Personally, it's "above my pay grade" to suggest a cause/solution!

I'm just a "reporter" writing down what I see.
Race Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:32   #5117  |  Link
Race Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
If we're going to talk about "wise ass" -- I'd ask that you please re-read this post and look at it from my perspective. When did terms like "beta" and freeware lose their meaning? Things get fixed -- but they get fixed when they are discovered and reported -- I've had all of a couple of days to look at this one (while, by the way, I'm busting my ass with a real job).

Saying "rename your product to 1080p/24-Rebuilder" isn't "wise-ass"? (Smiley faces don't always cover an insult)

Honestly, I don't know why I do this. Whip me! Beat me! Make me write bad checks! (because I'm obviously a glutton for punishment)
Yes......, I admit........, it was kinda "wise ass"!

Isn't the goal to get this released so you can get SHOWERED with CURRENCY of ALL TYPES??? I'm just trying to get a "real" bug kicked up to the top of the list to help you REACH that goal!

Sounds like I made a LITTLE progress, ain't it?

Keep up the good work!
Race Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 21:44   #5118  |  Link
Race Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmih View Post
This so called MAJOR bug effects how many discs?? All of us happy people who have done loads of discs which play perfectly have a different opinion to you of this great software. As your player spec pages says "* Compatibility with user-encoded contents or user-created discs is on a best-effort basis with no guarantee due to the variation of media, software and techniques used." - it's a pity the same consideration isn't extended to jdobbs and Dark Shikari!
This "bug" affects virtually ALL "live concert" discs.

IMO, that's THE big attraction of Blu......., HD Music. Flix are OK, but REALLY, how many times are you gonna watch the same flick? A rockin' good concert can be watched OVER & OVER & OVER AGAIN!

It also probably affects ANY disc shot live. Most film (1080p/24 stuff) is "scanned", correct?

See ya!
Race Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 22:55   #5119  |  Link
drmih
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 590
So probably about 1% or 2%. I've only done AC-DC Live at Donnington and that was fine to bd-9.
drmih is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 23:14   #5120  |  Link
chudm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 182
was on vacation, ill keep an eye on the newer betas thx jdobbs!
chudm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.