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Old 26th June 2015, 13:58   #31341  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
4 and 8 tabs are removed. they are bad scalers there is no need for them.
Thanks. It always displayed Jinc3 for me until I changed settings, a little confusing.
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Old 26th June 2015, 18:29   #31342  |  Link
XMonarchY
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How can I compare madVR renderer image with all them HQ settings I use to the "original image", whatever that means. In fact, what IS the original image? Which madVR settings should I use to get that image? Set everything to bicubic?
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Old 26th June 2015, 18:34   #31343  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
How can I compare madVR renderer image with all them HQ settings I use to the "original image", whatever that means. In fact, what IS the original image? Which madVR settings should I use to get that image? Set everything to bicubic?
There is no "original" image anymore.

If you mean to the image you used to get with EVR or something you simply compare to the other renderer. Don't try to configure madVR to give an image similar to EVR.
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Old 26th June 2015, 18:54   #31344  |  Link
XMonarchY
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OK, gotcha.

I have another problem. I don't know which info I need to report, but at times when I watch a video without any issues at all and then pause & resume it, the video begins to stutter badly until I shut down MPC-HC completely and restart the video...
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Old 26th June 2015, 19:56   #31345  |  Link
omarank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I don't like NEDI for chroma upscaling, either. FWIW, I've found a little bug in super-xbr chroma upscaling. Please compare again. Maybe super-xbr could replace Jinc as the "best medium speed" chroma upscaler?
I don’t think super-xbr can replace Jinc as the best medium speed chroma upscaler, because Jinc is more natural looking. I prefer suber-xbr chroma (sharpness 100) over Jinc AR chroma in two instances, when the source is rather soft or the image is being downscaled by a large factor using CR AR LL.


For image doubling, super-xbr is good, but NNEDI3 is much superior. In the screenshots below, NNEDI3 clearly looks the best on this sample:
Jinc3 AR
NNEDI3 64 neurons
Super-xbr sharpness 100
Original

Last edited by omarank; 27th June 2015 at 02:19.
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Old 26th June 2015, 22:34   #31346  |  Link
Warner306
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Is there a place for debanding when outputting at 10-bits with dithering? I find it harder to detect banding with the sources I use.
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Old 26th June 2015, 22:36   #31347  |  Link
Warner306
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Also, can someone tell me if this chroma subsampling chain is correct?

HTPC Chroma Subsampling: (Source) Y'CbCr 4:2:0 -> (madVR) Y'CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB -> (TV) Y'CbCr 4:2:2 or Y'CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB
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Old 26th June 2015, 22:38   #31348  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Is there a place for debanding when outputting at 10-bits with dithering? I find it harder to detect banding with the sources I use.
the madVR dithering isn't removing banding it simply doesn't add more that's it so the usage of bedanding doesn't change with 10 bit output it just depends on the source quality. and even 10 bit sources in the future will have banding.

Quote:
HTPC Chroma Subsampling: (Source) Y'CbCr 4:2:0 -> (madVR) Y'CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB -> (TV) Y'CbCr 4:2:2 or Y'CbCr 4:4:4 to RGB
not sure what you mean but.

there are a lot of possibilities.

and it is really hard to judge what is really happening in a TV. but you can assume the final signal given the pixel is based on full range RGB signal i guess...
a GPU can output 4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, limited range RGB and full range RGB (and that with 8-12 bit to make things more complicated). the madVR output is RGB with all possible ranges thanks to the custom levels but madVR is kind of telling the GPU his signal is full range RGB always.

Last edited by huhn; 26th June 2015 at 22:45.
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Old 26th June 2015, 23:13   #31349  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the madVR dithering isn't removing banding it simply doesn't add more that's it so the usage of bedanding doesn't change with 10 bit output it just depends on the source quality. and even 10 bit sources in the future will have banding.



not sure what you mean but.

there are a lot of possibilities.

and it is really hard to judge what is really happening in a TV. but you can assume the final signal given the pixel is based on full range RGB signal i guess...
a GPU can output 4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, limited range RGB and full range RGB (and that with 8-12 bit to make things more complicated). the madVR output is RGB with all possible ranges thanks to the custom levels but madVR is kind of telling the GPU his signal is full range RGB always.
Does the TV always convert back to YCbCr before conversion to RGB, or is it possible for the TV to display RGB from a PC without conversion?
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Old 26th June 2015, 23:27   #31350  |  Link
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As stated, it's very hard to know exactly what the TV is doing internally... We can only guess

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Old 26th June 2015, 23:33   #31351  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
To test your TV for 4:4:4 and Banding,

Banding Test: Smooth Grey Gradient
Banding Test 2Smooth Color Gradient
4:4:4 Test: Chroma 4:4:4 Image

You should see 4:4:4 and no banding at all.
If your TV/Projector/Monitor can display 4:4:4 Full range without banding, it would be ideal because madVR's dithering is top quality.
I see 4:4:4 in purple lettering with no blinking. Is this an assumed pass?
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Old 26th June 2015, 23:44   #31352  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I see 4:4:4 in purple lettering with no blinking. Is this an assumed pass?
and if you didn't see 4:2:2 (sharping can show the 4:4:4) than you can at least say it isn't down sample.

i personally look at the pixel to judge 4.4:4.
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Old 27th June 2015, 00:28   #31353  |  Link
JarrettH
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Once this bug in xbr is fixed, you believe it to be a better chroma upsampler than jinc, madshi?
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Old 27th June 2015, 05:55   #31354  |  Link
nijiko
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How to REM a line in profile scripts? Because of testing, I won't delete that temporary.
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Old 27th June 2015, 10:19   #31355  |  Link
michkrol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Once this bug in xbr is fixed, you believe it to be a better chroma upsampler than jinc, madshi?
The bug is already fixed in madVR v0.88.13.
See end of http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1727312 and the changelog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nijiko View Post
How to REM a line in profile scripts? Because of testing, I won't delete that temporary.
If you want to comment out a line use C/Java style '//' one line comments, like this:
Code:
if(...) "..."
//elseif(...) "commented out"
//elseif(...) "more commented out"
else "..."
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Old 27th June 2015, 16:46   #31356  |  Link
nijiko
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Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
If you want to comment out a line use C/Java style '//' one line comments, like this:
Code:
if(...) "..."
//elseif(...) "commented out"
//elseif(...) "more commented out"
else "..."
Really?
I had tried REM and /* */, but it did not take effect.
Thank you!

Then, can you tell me how to judge whether some algorithm is take effect? Which var?
Such as whether Super-xBR is in use, or whether Image Doubling is working?
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Old 28th June 2015, 06:20   #31357  |  Link
bcec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuzakiL View Post
arrggh...stuck between two configs

I now understand that my Samsung 40inch LedTV can do both FULL and LIMITED by way of toggling "HDMI Black Level" to NORMAL (0-255) and LOW (16-235) and also my panel can do FULL and LIMITED range RGB 4:4:4

so now the question is what are the advantages of using FULL, FULL, FULL config compared to FULL, LIMITED, LIMITED config?

it seems my panel is a very flexible one and can do either both config, so i'm confused what config to use.

P.S. just want to put a nail on this topic and move on.
RGB is always full and 4:4:4.

Your TV does the following:

- When input is not marked as "PC":
Your TV converts incoming signal to YCbCr. If your pc was sending RGB, this gets converted by the TV. Anytime you see saturation slider not greyed out, your TV is doing a YCbCr conversion. That's why you are allowed to select full vs normal in the HDMI Black Level setting

- When input is marked as "PC":
TV doesn't do conversion and displays the RGB signal. Depending on the chipset, you may or may not be able to get 4:4:4 (a simple test would verify this).


I myself don't put my TV into PC mode, so that all calibration picture controls are available (those only apply to YCbCr signal). What this means, is that I have two options. Send RGB from the computer (TV will do YCbCr conversion), or send YCbCr from the computer (computer will do the conversion, TV won't). I like the results of latter.
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Old 28th June 2015, 07:04   #31358  |  Link
lanzorg
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Is it possible to change the madVR preferences from the command line?
I create a little installer and I need to enable smoothmotion and directx11 based on user choice.

Last edited by lanzorg; 28th June 2015 at 07:39.
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Old 28th June 2015, 08:38   #31359  |  Link
michkrol
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Originally Posted by nijiko View Post
Then, can you tell me how to judge whether some algorithm is take effect? Which var?
Such as whether Super-xBR is in use, or whether Image Doubling is working?
There is no way to check it with profile rules, all the variables you can check are listed here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1271417

If you want to see what scaling (and doubling) algorithms are used, check debug OSD (Ctrl+J).
If you want to see which profiles are activated, check settings - the active profile's name is bold. Take note you must sometimes close and re-open the settings dialog to see active profiles, since it's not updated in real-time.
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Old 28th June 2015, 08:41   #31360  |  Link
RyuzakiL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
RGB is always full and 4:4:4.

Your TV does the following:

- When input is not marked as "PC":
Your TV converts incoming signal to YCbCr. If your pc was sending RGB, this gets converted by the TV. Anytime you see saturation slider not greyed out, your TV is doing a YCbCr conversion. That's why you are allowed to select full vs normal in the HDMI Black Level setting

- When input is marked as "PC":
TV doesn't do conversion and displays the RGB signal. Depending on the chipset, you may or may not be able to get 4:4:4 (a simple test would verify this).


I myself don't put my TV into PC mode, so that all calibration picture controls are available (those only apply to YCbCr signal). What this means, is that I have two options. Send RGB from the computer (TV will do YCbCr conversion), or send YCbCr from the computer (computer will do the conversion, TV won't). I like the results of latter.

err.. nope my input is still marked as "PC" so my Samsung Telly doesn't do unnecessary conversions (RGB--to--YCbCr).

whether my input was marked "PC" or not, I can still change HDMI Black Level Settings. Except for other settings (e.g. sharpness, black tone, dynamic contrast) when MadVR switches display modes (i.e. 23hz) then only then those other settings were available/adjustable.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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