Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th October 2015, 14:21   #33741  |  Link
dimitrik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 79
frame drops despite low render times

I'm getting about 10-20 frame drops (reported) per min on my HTPC (specs below) despite low render times (10-20ms depending on scaling factor).
Queues are all full and OSD does not predict any frame drops (it just says something like "1 frame repeat every 16 hours etc).

This occurs on both nnedi3 and super-xbr, as well as with just jinc upscaling.
I tested both 10-bit and 8-bit output and the problem is there in both cases.

My settings are:
  • D3D11, FSE
  • All "trade quality for performance" options off
  • Debanding: low/medium
  • Ordered Dithering
  • Chroma upscaling: Jinc
  • Image doubling: s-xbr or nnedi3/32
  • Downscaling:Catmul Rom/AR/LL
  • Upscaling refinement: off
  • LAV set to software decoding
  • TV (Sony Bravia W9) running in native 24p (MadVR set to change Refresh rate to video fps)
  • Catalyst Omega 14.12 drivers
  • Native RGB colorspace everywhere
  • MadVR 0.89.6
The problem exists with most files I tested, including 1080p, 720p and SD content. All the affected files play fine on my desktop (specs also below).

Any ideas what I could do to fix this?
__________________
HTPC: Intel Core i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3 1833, GTX 660Ti, Samsung SSD860, Asus z77, PCIe 3.0

Desktop: AMD Ryzen 3700x, 16GB DDR4, 1TB NVME SSD, Asus x570 Tuf Gaming, Nvidia RTX 2060.
dimitrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 14:35   #33742  |  Link
aufkrawall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,812
Don't disable deband fade-in-out performance trade-off option, it requires very long queues to prevent frame drops.

Last edited by aufkrawall; 19th October 2015 at 15:53.
aufkrawall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 16:24   #33743  |  Link
mcn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11
When I pause a video I can see that the image goes back a few frames.

I noticed this while presenting 8 frames in advance.
Setting it down to 1 helps tremendously but sometimes I can still see this glitch.

If I completely disable the presentation of frames in advance the problem is persists and is unmitigated.
In this case changing the number of backbuffers doesn't seem to do anything.

I'm avoiding additional details about my setup on purpose, to keep down the noise. If you need more info ask away.
mcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 17:11   #33744  |  Link
dimitrik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Don't disable deband fade-in-out performance trade-off option, it requires very long queues to prevent frame drops.
Thanks! Will give that a try...

Or since I can output 10 bit, perhaps I could also disable debanding as a worst case...
__________________
HTPC: Intel Core i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3 1833, GTX 660Ti, Samsung SSD860, Asus z77, PCIe 3.0

Desktop: AMD Ryzen 3700x, 16GB DDR4, 1TB NVME SSD, Asus x570 Tuf Gaming, Nvidia RTX 2060.
dimitrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 17:42   #33745  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
outputting 10 bit doesn't remove banding from a source.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 17:46   #33746  |  Link
markanini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 299
I get some visible tearing when using a custom 71.928 Hz refresh rate in fullscreen exclude and windowed mode. HD7700 Windows 10.
markanini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 18:52   #33747  |  Link
KoD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 567
madshi, thanks for the answer.

So, this means that at least when watching progressive material, there is no lossy conversion process affecting chroma. Too bad that as soon as DXVA deinterlacing gets activated, one still gets the lossy conversion, even when using DXVA copyback. DXVA copyback is not the hardware accelerated solution that gives the best quality in all cases like suggested in the posts above then.

Software deinterlacing using Yadif is not up to par to DXVA deinterlacing so this is a no go, and hardware deinterlacing with QS is broken in some cases. From all these options, I guess QS has the best chances of ending up as a working solution. I'll bother nevcariel in his thread with samples where QS deinterlacing breaks then, maybe something can be done about it.
KoD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 18:59   #33748  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoD View Post
I'll bother nevcariel in his thread with samples where QS deinterlacing breaks then, maybe something can be done about it.
Don't bother, QS is an external component and I have no interest in fixing code that I didn't even write.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 19:47   #33749  |  Link
dimitrik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
outputting 10 bit doesn't remove banding from a source.
Noted, thank you. I was aware in retrospect, but somehow got confused. I think because of native 10-bit content not suffering from banding as much as 8-bit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Don't disable deband fade-in-out performance trade-off option, it requires very long queues to prevent frame drops.
That completely solved the problem, many thanks!
__________________
HTPC: Intel Core i7 2700K, 16GB DDR3 1833, GTX 660Ti, Samsung SSD860, Asus z77, PCIe 3.0

Desktop: AMD Ryzen 3700x, 16GB DDR4, 1TB NVME SSD, Asus x570 Tuf Gaming, Nvidia RTX 2060.
dimitrik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th October 2015, 21:58   #33750  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitrik View Post
That completely solved the problem, many thanks!
Another option is to set both debanding settings to the same level; this disables fade detection entirely which also improves debanding performance slightly.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 04:17   #33751  |  Link
trip_let
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Is Catmull-Rom messed up for anyone else after image doubling (super-xbr or NNEDI3)? This is on v0.89.11, but I haven't been testing every new build.

On the latest build, Win10 x64, GT 650M/HD 4000 Optimus.

It should be obvious here (applies to any video but clear enough when working with something very low res):
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/147572

Catmull-Rom and Bicubic 50 should be the same thing, right?
trip_let is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 04:48   #33752  |  Link
Nezil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5
I have an interesting, though probably not that unusual, requirement for managing zoom control and aspect ratios.

What I’m basically looking for, is a way of setting up profiles in madVR to automatically achieve the result that I’m looking for; any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

99.9% of the content I watch is Blu-ray content, which has black bars embedded in the video stream itself, and has a stream aspect ratio of 1920 x 1080. Having said that, there are several different aspect ratio cases commonly seen with Blu-ray content:
  1. 16:9 content; 1920 x 1080 real video data
  2. 1.85:1 content; 1920 x 1040 real video data
  3. ~2.35:1 content; 1920 x ~800 real video data
  4. Movies with IMAX scenes - e.g. Interstellar
  5. Movies with multiple aspect ratios - e.g. The Grand Budapest Hotel
My viewing setup consists of a JVC DLA-RS46 projector with a 2.35:1 screen. I have black velvet masking panels that attach to the sides of the screen, resulting in a 16:9 sized area for projection when needed as well. The JVC projector has motorised zoom and shift, and I have it set up with two memories
  • 16:9 mode, where all 1920 x 1080 active pixels fill the centre of the screen (masking attached on the sides)
  • 2.35:1 mode, where 1920 x 816 pixels fill the whole 2.35:1 screen, 132 pixels at the top and bottom of the projected image fall above and below the screen.
Before madVR’s zoom and black bar detection algorithms were added to the renderer, I simply used the lens memories to zoom the content manually. This worked great for the first 3 commonly found Blu-ray formats listed above, but type 4 resulted in annoying image data being projected above and below my screen for some scenes (assuming 2.35:1 projector zoom), and type 5 would result in the perception of black all around the video data for some scenes (assuming 16:9 projector zoom).

I would like madVR to behaving in the following way for each of the 5 content types (My projector setting in parenthesis):
  1. No zoom (16:9 mode)
  2. No zoom (16:9 mode)
  3. No zoom (2.35:1 mode)
  4. ‘Crop’ all content to 1920 x 816 (2.35:1 mode)
  5. Zoom all content to fill as much of the 1920 x 816 active pixels that fit on the projection screen, sometimes upscaling, sometimes downscaling (2.35:1 mode)
So far, I have created two different screen config profiles for my display, effectively corresponding to the lens memories setup in the projector:
  • Cropped 1920 x 816 visible area defined
  • No cropping
I also have 3 profiles for zoom control:
  • Default (for content types 1, 2 and 3)
    - All zoom controls disabled
  • IMAX Scene Movies (for content type 4)
    - Disable scaling for ... 25 lines or less
    - Automatically detect black bars
    - If their are big black bars ... zoom the bars away completely
  • Mixed Ratio Movies (for content type 5)
    - Disable scaling for ... 10 lines or less
    - Automatically detect black bars
    - Zoom small black bars away
Currently, the only way that I can think of to use the Profile Rules, is to add '*.IMAX.*' / '*.multi.*' to the filenames to trigger selection of both sets of profiles, but I'd rather this be automated without having to change filenames.

I totally understand the reason that the zoom control works the way that it does, but I'm finding it difficult to setup rules and configurations that consistently achieve the desired effect for the content that I have.

This isn't a complaint, I'm just wondering if there is a better way to do what I'm trying to do.

Last edited by Nezil; 20th October 2015 at 04:53.
Nezil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 08:57   #33753  |  Link
blueray101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3
Can someone please tell the best setting for watching anime in 720p and 1080p for a high-end PC. I never watch anything below that.
blueray101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 10:45   #33754  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueray101 View Post
Can someone please tell the best setting for watching anime in 720p and 1080p for a high-end PC. I never watch anything below that.
http://wiki.mikejung.biz/MadVR
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 10:46   #33755  |  Link
Vyral
Registered User
 
Vyral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueray101 View Post
Can someone please tell the best setting for watching anime in 720p and 1080p for a high-end PC. I never watch anything below that.
This guide should help you get started : https://imouto.my/tutorials/madvr/

Then you'll have to play with the settings yourself.
__________________
iiyama prolite xb2483hsu 1080p60 Gamma=2.25 - Intel Core i3-2100 3.10GHz - AMD Radeon HD 6850, RGB 4:4:4 Full range - MPC-HC + XYSubFilter + madVR
Vyral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 11:04   #33756  |  Link
nijiko
Hi-Fi Fans
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 222
@madshi

Sorry for late. (Bcos it will make com dead.)

1,2,3 have no problem.
4,5 will popup Resample shader logic error (3).
nijiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 11:11   #33757  |  Link
nijiko
Hi-Fi Fans
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 222
@madshi ,is test1 89.10?
I can't find 89.10 on the internet. When I see you publish 89.10, your link was turn to 89.11.
And in videohelp.com, 89.10 and 89.11 are both the same 89.11.
nijiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 11:13   #33758  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,342
0.89.10 was severly broken, and there was only a single fix in 0.89.11 to fix that problem in .10, so there is no reason to test .10 for anything.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 11:31   #33759  |  Link
nijiko
Hi-Fi Fans
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 222
According to his words, test1 is the highest risk, meaning that it's the farest from 89.9.
But it works well with me, and it's showing 89.10. I never have a test for 89.10 release.
If I now turn to use 89.11, com will be fully freezed immed, again.
Then the problem is between test1(89.10) and 89.11.

Last edited by nijiko; 20th October 2015 at 11:44. Reason: fix words
nijiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th October 2015, 12:26   #33760  |  Link
Sunset1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 280
Hey guys,

I'm trying to find the best madVR configuration on my HTPC. I read a lot "madvr guides" and now I want to ask if someone could give me some suggestions for my system.

Syszem specs: i5 4590, 16GB DDR3 RAM, GTX970, Win 8.1
mainly used to upscale 1080p mkv to my 4K UHD OLED TV.


my settings atm:

artificial removing: default: low / during fade: high

chroma upscaling: NEEDI3, 16N
image downscaling: CR with AR and LL
image doubling: double luma if factor is 2.0x with NEEDI3, 32N, and double chroma with 2.0x and NEEDI3 16N
image upscaling: Jinc AR
Refinement: SuperRes St:3, sh:2, rad:066, once after upscaling ist complete


general: I use FSE and D3D11

Dithering: Ordered Dithering with cn and change dither every frame

trade quality for performance: "dont render frames when fade in out ist detected" is checked

With these settings i get 38ms and 1080p video upscaled to UHD without glitches and stuttering.


Does anyone see any settings which could be changed for better quality? or any ideas of chaning settings?

the guy in this guide http://wiki.mikejung.biz/MadVR#DXVA2_Focused_2 uses DXVA under imageupscaling and downscaling and therefor using higher Neurons under doubling and chroma. what do you think about that?

Any suggestions for different settings than mine for 4K upsacling are welcome!
__________________
Intel i5 6600, 16 GB DDR4, AMD Vega RX56 8 GB, Windows 10 x64, Kodi DS Player 17.6, MadVR (x64), LAV Filters (x64), XySubfilter .746 (x64)
LG 4K OLED (65C8D), Denon X-4200 AVR, Dali Zensor 5.1 Set
Sunset1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.