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Old 29th April 2020, 04:19   #81  |  Link
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Old 30th April 2020, 10:53   #82  |  Link
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rd 4 instead of 6 and psy-rdoq 0 because (in my experience) it makes too much onion gradient artifacts, maybe there's another way to fix it but I don't know.
I happened to run into a frame with some of that onion gradient in my tests yesterday. It was fixed by using --rd-refine. In my opinion, --rd 4 loses too much detail at least at higher bitrates but I'm still testing.
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Old 30th April 2020, 22:50   #83  |  Link
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@ benwaggoner

Well it's really curious. I Check previous Ma's enconding or TomV's encoding. And Ma's enconding, TomV's encoding or my encoding seem have really better quality than your placebo encoding (particulary in low motion part). You don't have problem with your encoding profil? You are sure that onedrive don't make reencoding (at upload or at download?). Quality is really bad for me.

and Beamr 5 encoding are the best for my eyes: really good complexity conservation. Certainely high psy (and good) optimisation. I will try to produce better result.
Which iteration of the placebo settings? The only placebo I think I posted was several years ago with a much older version of x265. The ones I posted this last week were veryslow. I'm rendering out the UltraPlacebo ones still, on a older machine where it looks like it'll take a full week.
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Old 1st May 2020, 12:30   #84  |  Link
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Which iteration of the placebo settings? The only placebo I think I posted was several years ago with a much older version of x265. The ones I posted this last week were veryslow. I'm rendering out the UltraPlacebo ones still, on a older machine where it looks like it'll take a full week.
Well I don't think it's x265 version problem. Your recent 2 pass x265 encoding have these problem too:

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%...267619&o=OneUp

Really bad quality on scene introduction:

Frame 442 to 559 : rocket takeoff, really blocky rocket and temporal blocking, I don't check quantizer but it's certainely too high value here. Perhaps rate control problem.

Frame 600 to 965 : bridge scene, problem on the edge (around the actress’s head or from the actor's arm for example). Certainely too high quantizer here. Perhaps rate control problem too.

I don't have these problem and the other encoding from me, or Ma or Opmox with x265 don't have these problem. It's really curious.
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Old 1st May 2020, 16:24   #85  |  Link
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Frame 442 to 559 : rocket takeoff, really blocky rocket and temporal blocking, I don't check quantizer but it's certainely too high value here. Perhaps rate control problem.

Frame 600 to 965 : bridge scene, problem on the edge (around the actressís head or from the actor's arm for example). Certainely too high quantizer here. Perhaps rate control problem too.

I don't have these problem and the other encoding from me, or Ma or Opmox with x265 don't have these problem. It's really curious.
Yeah, these were really encodes meant to test all the new recent features of x265 together. I am sure there are oddities.

Here's the full parameters blob I did, used in both passes. No implication these are appropriate settings for production use; I just stuck new parameters into an old ToS script from a couple of years ago as I was heading off to bed.

--level-idc 4.0 --profile main --preset veryslow -F 2 --selective-sao 2 --sar 1 --rd-refine --scenecut-aware-qp --hist-scenecut --hme --multi-pass-opt-analysis --multi-pass-opt-distortion --tskip --tskip-fast --keyint 120 --tu-intra 4 --tu-inter 4 --hevc-aq --hrd --aud --single-sei --bitrate 1000 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --colorprim bt709 --transfer bt709 --colormatrix bt709

And below full blob for the "UltraPlacebo" version I tried just to see what insanity may be feasible. The first pass only has about 80 hours left to go on my older personal computer (i7-6800K, which was actually a decent encoding box when I first built it). I'll try it on my actual workstation once I've got a break in my day job renders.

There's reasons there are parameters not even used in --preset placebo. Some because they are newer than the last preset refactoring (like HME) and some because the vanishingly small quality gains can't be justified by the huge speed increases.

--level-idc 4.0 --profile main --preset placebo --sar 1 -F 1 --ref 6 --bframes 16 --subme 7 --rd-refine --scenecut-aware-qp --hist-scenecut --hme --hme 5, 5, 5 --multi-pass-opt-analysis --multi-pass-opt-distortion --tskip --cu-lossless --keyint 120 --tu-intra 4 --tu-inter 4 --hevc-aq --hrd --aud --single-sei --bitrate 1000 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --colorprim bt709 --transfer bt709 --colormatrix bt709
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Old 1st May 2020, 18:28   #86  |  Link
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I would blame the default --max-qp-delta (with --scenecut-aware-qp) and --hist-threshold (with --hist-scene-cut). It's pretty awful to increase QP by 5 for 500ms every (detected) scene cut.
Increasing the --hist-threshold just to 0.02 already cuts the I frames by 3x or something, someone had posted about it as well in the x265 thread.

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Old 1st May 2020, 19:01   #87  |  Link
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I would blame the default --max-qp-delta (with --scenecut-aware-qp) and --hist-threshold (with --hist-scene-cut). It's pretty awful to increase QP by 5 for 500ms every (detected) scene cut.
Increasing the --hist-threshold just to 0.02 already cuts the I frames by 3x or something, someone had posted about it as well in the x265 thread.
I will check that but it's certainely something like that.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 01:38   #88  |  Link
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I will check that but it's certainely something like that.
I'm reencoding with --hist-threshold 0.02 to see if that helps.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 01:57   #89  |  Link
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Hmmm, check this out: https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/...0b4ea15f233abe

Kirithika Kalirathnam committed eca79c2
2019-10-18
Fix the RC Pass2 ABR

This commit does the following changes:
1. Fix the order of RC Pass 1 stats Analysis in Pass2
2. Fix the aggressive Qp tuning for I/P frames in Pass2
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Old 6th May 2020, 10:34   #90  |  Link
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
Hmmm, check this out: https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/...0b4ea15f233abe

Kirithika Kalirathnam committed eca79c2
2019-10-18
Fix the RC Pass2 ABR

This commit does the following changes:
1. Fix the order of RC Pass 1 stats Analysis in Pass2
2. Fix the aggressive Qp tuning for I/P frames in Pass2
Well seem to be the problem. At actual committed version (3.3+26), x265 seem have too agressive rate control compression at the start of encoding with 2 pass. You have not the problem with 3 pass or crf mode.

and it's really curious, but crf mode and multipass encoding seem have really different strategy for rate control too:
- crf mode has really agressive quantizer for bframe: really high metric but lower quality for bframe.
- multipass is less agressive for bframe: lower metric but higher subjective quality with better temporal quality stability.

Imply that it's difficult to compare crf and multipass mode beacause RC strategy are different (quality can really change between N and N+1 frame and conclusion too).
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Old 6th May 2020, 13:13   #91  |  Link
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Well for HEVC I will try to make:

- highest possible quality metric (crf mode)
- highest possible "temporal" quality metric (multipass mode)
- highest subjective quality (with my best psy mode actived)
- Ultra fast encoding demonstration in "VOD production mode"

These encoding will have really higher overall quality than old ultraplacebo benwaggoner encoding (for metric quality or subjective quality)
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Old 6th May 2020, 20:25   #92  |  Link
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Well for HEVC I will try to make:

- highest possible quality metric (crf mode)
- highest possible "temporal" quality metric (multipass mode)
- highest subjective quality (with my best psy mode actived)
- Ultra fast encoding demonstration in "VOD production mode"

These encoding will have really higher overall quality than old ultraplacebo benwaggoner encoding (for metric quality or subjective quality)
I expect they would be! Those were done using a 2018 x265 build and plenty of fixes and other improvements have come in since then. Plus that was really an attempt to figure out what maximum encoder complexity could do. Plenty of content-specific tweaks remain to be discovered and applied.

I look forward to seeing your results!
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Old 9th May 2020, 11:04   #93  |  Link
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I expect they would be! Those were done using a 2018 x265 build and plenty of fixes and other improvements have come in since then. Plus that was really an attempt to figure out what maximum encoder complexity could do. Plenty of content-specific tweaks remain to be discovered and applied.

I look forward to seeing your results!
Actually more than 100 encodings for find best profil. I had not encoded with the x265 for quite a long time and there was plenty of functionality to test. currently I finish the 1000 kbps encodings with the final profiles:

- crf mode with highest metric score: my profile will beat all previous HEVC encoding here with a large margin
- ABR with 3 passes : my best visual compromise
- Reuse ABR : encoding with ABR 3 passes analysis reuse statistique but at fastest speed (~50x speed improvement vs slower, ~100x vs veryslow, ~200x vs placebo ... with comparable quality)
- ABR 3 passes with default RC, AQ and PSY setting (but at same level research for ME, CU, TU ...) for make comparison.

Anyway some little conclusion:
- hevc-aq option produce better metric and by far
- Rate Control in multipass encoding don't work very well: 2 passes don't produce constant quality encoding. You must use 3 passes for better bitrate repartition and even sometimes 4 passes if you want same bitrate repartition than crf mode.
- crf mode has the best metrics but with really aggressive quantizer on bframes: the difference in quality between PFrames and bframes is really large. ABR multipasses encoding don't have this "problem".
- placebo preset encoding is not really usefull (less than 1% size gain at same "metric" quality versus veryslow preset). For exemple I obtain really better constant quality in "3 pass preset slower" versus "2 pass preset placebo" simply because Rate Control is not really good in 2 passes mode.

crf mode:

Quote:
x265 [info]: frame I: 221, Avg QP:27.27 kb/s: 11216.30 PSNR Mean: Y:43.857 U:46.103 V:46.112 SSIM Mean: 0.973372 (15.747dB)
x265 [info]: frame P: 3910, Avg QP:29.09 kb/s: 2844.64 PSNR Mean: Y:43.033 U:46.037 V:45.997 SSIM Mean: 0.971443 (15.443dB)
x265 [info]: frame B: 13489, Avg QP:36.49 kb/s: 296.98 PSNR Mean: Y:41.376 U:45.256 V:45.240 SSIM Mean: 0.967579 (14.892dB)
x265 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:6.0% UV:4.8%
x265 [info]: Weighted B-Frames: Y:4.1% UV:2.8%
x265 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 10.8% 7.6% 5.9% 24.9% 21.6% 29.2%

encoded 17620 frames in 30340.70s (0.58 fps), 999.28 kb/s, Avg QP:34.73, Global PSNR: 42.688, SSIM Mean Y: 0.9685090 (15.018 dB)

3 passes ABR mode with exactly same setting:

Quote:
x265 [info]: frame I: 221, Avg QP:26.58 kb/s: 10729.30 PSNR Mean: Y:43.864 U:46.118 V:46.127 SSIM Mean: 0.972412 (15.593dB)
x265 [info]: frame P: 3910, Avg QP:29.26 kb/s: 2266.71 PSNR Mean: Y:42.187 U:45.456 V:45.336 SSIM Mean: 0.966785 (14.787dB)
x265 [info]: frame B: 13489, Avg QP:31.23 kb/s: 469.21 PSNR Mean: Y:41.386 U:44.917 V:44.851 SSIM Mean: 0.965572 (14.631dB)
x265 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:6.0% UV:4.7%
x265 [info]: Weighted B-Frames: Y:4.1% UV:2.8%
x265 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 10.8% 7.6% 5.9% 24.9% 21.6% 29.2%

encoded 17620 frames in 34506.66s (0.51 fps), 996.78 kb/s, Avg QP:30.73, Global PSNR: 42.449, SSIM Mean Y: 0.9659273 (14.676 dB)
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Old 9th May 2020, 17:38   #94  |  Link
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and I check Beamr 5 encoding stream: I think that this encoder use "zone encoding" or really constrained Rate Control to have higher quality in less complexes parts. But quality in complexes parts like high motion is really low. Compromise are good for my eyes. Anyway you can't compare Bearm encoding and x265 encoding with that.

size for 14135 -> 15062 frame credit zone (really complexe part with high bitrate in constant quantizer mode):

- x265, Placebo "Benwaggoner" encoding: 19 514 Ko (1300 Kbps)
- x265, Veryslow "Ma" encoding: 18 465 Ko
- x265, My 3 pass ABR encoding: 19 357 Ko
- x265, My crf encoding: 23 523 Ko (1568 Kbps)
- Bearm encoding: 15 145 Ko (1009 Kbps)

Imply 980 Kbps for first 14135 frames (without credit) for Bearm and 930 Kbps for first 14135 frames (without credit) for x265. It's 6% of size. It's the difference between slow versus placebo quality preset for x265 encoder. And at really low bitrate (1000 Kbps for 1080p), it's particulary high difference.
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Old 9th May 2020, 22:34   #95  |  Link
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Wow, some good and interesting results. Thank you! And an excellent demonstration of the weakness of considering --preset a primary determinator of quality. For nearly all encodes, there are other tweaks that can be made that will produce better quality, faster than just cranking up preset. More passes are a classic example of using MIPS smarter instead of just harder. Heck, a simple --nr-inter 150 can be a bigger improvement than slower to placebo.

The only scenario I've seen where placebo really delivers materially better efficiency than slower is in lossless encoding, where placebo can be nearly 10% better than every veryslow with some sorts of content.

Can you share your settings for your best result encodes?
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Old 9th May 2020, 22:56   #96  |  Link
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Wow, some good and interesting results. Thank you! And an excellent demonstration of the weakness of considering --preset a primary determinator of quality. For nearly all encodes, there are other tweaks that can be made that will produce better quality, faster than just cranking up preset. More passes are a classic example of using MIPS smarter instead of just harder. Heck, a simple --nr-inter 150 can be a bigger improvement than slower to placebo.

The only scenario I've seen where placebo really delivers materially better efficiency than slower is in lossless encoding, where placebo can be nearly 10% better than every veryslow with some sorts of content.

Can you share your settings for your best result encodes?
Yes I will make complete post when all my tests are finished. And actually I obtain really better quality than your old placebo encoding (for metric and my eyes), and by large margin at 1000 kbps.

Here all my encoding for 1000 kbps:

Quote:
@REM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@REM >> ToS encoding, 3 pass ABR, veryslow profil, high metric profil
@REM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-abr.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 1 --slow-firstpass --stats ToS-1000-abr.log --preset veryslow --qcomp 0.50 --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --tune ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --hevc-aq --qp-adaptation-range 1.0 --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64 --deblock -1,-1 --limit-sao

x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-abr.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 3 --stats ToS-1000-abr.log --preset veryslow --qcomp 0.50 --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --tune ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --hevc-aq --qp-adaptation-range 1.0 --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64 --deblock -1,-1 --limit-sao

x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-abr.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 2 --stats ToS-1000-abr.log --preset veryslow --qcomp 0.50 --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --tune ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --hevc-aq --qp-adaptation-range 1.0 --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64 --deblock -1,-1 --limit-sao --analysis-save ToS_1000_R10-abr_analysis.dat --analysis-save-reuse-level 10 --csv ToS-1000-abr.csv --csv-log-level 1


@REM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@REM >> ToS encoding, 3 pass ABR, veryslow profil, high speed reuse from 1000 kbps ABR encoding
@REM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-hs.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 3 --stats ToS-1000-abr.log --preset veryslow --qcomp 0.50 --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --tune ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --hevc-aq --qp-adaptation-range 1.0 --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64 --deblock -1,-1 --limit-sao --analysis-load ToS_1000_R10-abr_analysis.dat --analysis-load-reuse-level 10

x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-hs.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 3 --stats ToS-1000-abr.log --preset veryslow --qcomp 0.50 --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --tune ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --hevc-aq --qp-adaptation-range 1.0 --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64 --deblock -1,-1 --limit-sao --analysis-load ToS_1000_R10-abr_analysis.dat --analysis-load-reuse-level 10

x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-hs.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 3 --stats ToS-1000-abr.log --preset veryslow --qcomp 0.50 --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --tune ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --hevc-aq --qp-adaptation-range 1.0 --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64 --deblock -1,-1 --limit-sao --analysis-load ToS_1000_R10-abr_analysis.dat --analysis-load-reuse-level 10 --csv ToS-1000-hs.csv --csv-log-level 1


@REM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@REM >> ToS encoding, 3 pass ABR, veryslow profil, default RC and PSY setting
@REM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-psy.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 1 --slow-firstpass --stats ToS-1000-psy.log --preset veryslow --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64

x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-psy.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 3 --stats ToS-1000-psy.log --preset veryslow --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64

x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-psy.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --bitrate 1000 --pass 2 --stats ToS-1000-psy.log --preset veryslow --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64 --analysis-save ToS_1000_R10-psy_analysis.dat --analysis-save-reuse-level 10 --csv ToS-1000-psy.csv --csv-log-level 1


@REM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@REM >> ToS encoding, 1 pass CFR, veryslow profil, highest metric profil
@REM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


x265.exe --input C:\ToS_1920x800_xdither.y4m --output ToS-1000-crf.265 --input-res 1920x800 --output-depth 10 --fps 24000/1000 --crf 23.1 --pass 1 --slow-firstpass --stats ToS-1000-crf.log --preset veryslow --qcomp 0.50 --bframes 5 --b-adapt 2 --min-keyint 1 --keyint 120 --rc-lookahead 60 --vbv-maxrate 4000 --vbv-bufsize 12000 --psnr --ssim --tune ssim --no-limit-modes --ref 5 --rd-refine --hevc-aq --qp-adaptation-range 1.0 --tskip --qg-size 64 --merange 64 --deblock -1,-1 --limit-sao --analysis-save ToS_1000_R10-crf_analysis.dat --analysis-save-reuse-level 10 --csv ToS-1000-crf.csv --csv-log-level 1
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Old 9th May 2020, 23:25   #97  |  Link
Opmox
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Old 10th May 2020, 00:01   #98  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Interesting. I'm curious about what drove cg-size of 32 versus 64 and b-frames of of 5.

FWIW, 6 reference frames are actually legal here, since it is 1920x800 instead of 1080. Just as long as you don't apply DRM and try to play on a Qualcomm SoC .
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Old 10th May 2020, 00:08   #99  |  Link
Sagittaire
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
Interesting. I'm curious about what drove cg-size of 32 versus 64 and b-frames of of 5.

FWIW, 6 reference frames are actually legal here, since it is 1920x800 instead of 1080. Just as long as you don't apply DRM and try to play on a Qualcomm SoC .
yes I try, but perhaps less than 0.1% size save. Like for 16 bframes.
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Old 10th May 2020, 00:10   #100  |  Link
Sagittaire
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Originally Posted by Opmox View Post
Careful with analysis-load-reuse-level, in my tests I had like ~800 psnr less, you can prevent this loss with refine-intra and refine-inter
yes but refine is dramatical speed loss ... ;-)

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...78#post1911278
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