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Old 23rd May 2018, 17:21   #50961  |  Link
Clown shoes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTechi View Post
I am using a 3DLUT for non HDR Content so far and I really like the result. I wasn't aware that HDR requires different 3DLUT (madvr was actually giving me a error message when I tried to add the BT2020 LUT within the HDR config page) but thinking it over it makes sense to me since I would use different settings in my projector as well.
So I am planning now to:
- re-calibrate my HDR Settings
- create a HDR 3DLUT

My question is why it is different for different HDR sources. Isn't the whole point of using a 3DLUT to have the incoming signal analysed and the outgoing signal adjusted based on the 3DLUT. If for example a movie would be mastered in 1000nits and the whole calibration and the 3DLUT would have been done targeting 4000nits wouldn't be the intention of madvr to adjust it accordingly?

But if I am wrong and if I would need a HDR 3DLUT for all types of different source metadata would there be a way madvr recognizes the incoming metadata and chooses the right HDR 3DLUT automatically?

NoTechi
It's quite simple really; Most of our TVs aren't really suitable for HDR material, despite being compatible.

You really need a minimum of 1000 nits otherwise you need to make compromises somewhere.

With regard to applying the HDR LUT it won't auto apply at present and you will need to use the one in the DisplayCal folder
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Old 23rd May 2018, 17:23   #50962  |  Link
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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
In your case it's just impossible to profile your particular display in HDR mode and get something usable due to the incredibly inconsistent display-imposed HDR tonemapping. The situation is different on displays where there is no display-imposed tonemapping or the tonemapping is of higher quality (e.g. the LG OLED HDR TVs seem to do fine when they are not adjusted to death before profiling).
I've actually got the 3D LUTs working much better now, but I discovered I need to do some display calibration first to get it much closer to target. My aim is to get a half decent calibration with HCFR first and then follow that up with DisplayCal to polish things off
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Old 23rd May 2018, 17:43   #50963  |  Link
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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
In your case it's just impossible to profile your particular display in HDR mode and get something usable due to the incredibly inconsistent display-imposed HDR tonemapping. The situation is different on displays where there is no display-imposed tonemapping or the tonemapping is of higher quality (e.g. the LG OLED HDR TVs seem to do fine when they are not adjusted to death before profiling).
Oh and another thing I found out from Ted was that you should never touch the brightness and contrast controls on a commercial HDR TV, as it effectively breaks the tone mapping.

Since following that little nugget of advice I'm not getting all that red crap in my highlights like I was before
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Old 24th May 2018, 00:50   #50964  |  Link
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One's anecdotal opinion doesn't necessarily make an universal truth.
True, but I would be surprised if you could get one 3DLUT that looks good for both Wonder Woman and the first Harry Potter movie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
I wouldn't recommend doing it that way. By entering a mastering display peak luminance that is lower than 10K nits you gain a certain (usually really small) amount of extra luminance in HDR highlights, but risk potentially losing detail due to clipping. HDR metadata is not a good or accurate way to figure out what's actually encoded in the content.
So you recommend analyzing the video and setting the mastering display peak nits to the peak actually encoded? I do get good results that way but doesn’t that need a 3DLUT for every video?

If you don’t care about the extra luminance in the highlights I suppose you could use 10k but then it is much darker than passthrough is, at least on my OLED with it peak brightness just below 700 nits after calibration. My display is already struggling with brightness for HDR, a 3DLUT that dims it more is not a good option.

Harry Potter, for example, is very dark with a 3DLUT generated with peak nits set to 10K but looks normal with passthrough. It is not a really small change, it is quite significant and much more noticeable than improved hue, etc. Right now a 3DLUT completely ignores the video’s metadata doesn’t it? There is a reason HDR is moving to dynamic metadata and tone mapping that changes for each frame, not just every video, and a 3DLUT that does 1 tone map for everything cannot be as good or there is no point in even having metadata for HDR in the first place.
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Old 24th May 2018, 16:05   #50965  |  Link
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The next madVR build is supposed to add a profile rule for the peak luminance of the video. This should make it possible to use multiple HDR 3DLUTs for multiple HDR standards. Not perfect, but an improvement.
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Old 24th May 2018, 16:28   #50966  |  Link
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Maybe the guy madshi hired is fixing this.
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Old 24th May 2018, 16:42   #50967  |  Link
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Maybe the guy madshi hired is fixing this.
he hired someone? to keep madvr up to date?
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Old 24th May 2018, 16:57   #50968  |  Link
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No. Don't listen to foozoor, he is just constantly trolling.
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Old 24th May 2018, 17:14   #50969  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
True, but I would be surprised if you could get one 3DLUT that looks good for both Wonder Woman and the first Harry Potter movie.



So you recommend analyzing the video and setting the mastering display peak nits to the peak actually encoded? I do get good results that way but doesn’t that need a 3DLUT for every video?

If you don’t care about the extra luminance in the highlights I suppose you could use 10k but then it is much darker than passthrough is, at least on my OLED with it peak brightness just below 700 nits after calibration. My display is already struggling with brightness for HDR, a 3DLUT that dims it more is not a good option.

Harry Potter, for example, is very dark with a 3DLUT generated with peak nits set to 10K but looks normal with passthrough. It is not a really small change, it is quite significant and much more noticeable than improved hue, etc. Right now a 3DLUT completely ignores the video’s metadata doesn’t it? There is a reason HDR is moving to dynamic metadata and tone mapping that changes for each frame, not just every video, and a 3DLUT that does 1 tone map for everything cannot be as good or there is no point in even having metadata for HDR in the first place.

At the moment the best way to use a 3D LUT with MadVR for HDR content is to use a BT2020 SDR calibration (with a power gamma of 2.4) and use the pixel shader HDR to SDR conversion. If you set your display to its peak brightness (or whatever you're comfortable with with HDR) you're still watching HDR (it's just that the conversion is done in the source instead of the display). You can then create different profiles for various values for peak brightness, according to content. And you only need one SDR BT2020 3D LUT to get best accuracy all the time.

Madshi didn't have the time in the last release to include the peak brightness variable that will allow us to use profiles to select automatically the best profile, but you can still switch manually with a key combo (or iRule).

I'm still using passthrough because I have implemented in the Vertex with HD Fury a way to automatically select the best custom gamma curve for my JVC according to the content, but as soon as MadVR catches up I'll most likely use pixel shader (provided we get 10bits back as there is no banding in pixel shader, unlike passthrough), as having a 3D LUT significantly improves results, even on my autocal'ed JVC.

Ideally the next step will for MadVr to dynamically adjust the curve to the content, so we won't need profiles anymore, but we're not there yet.
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Last edited by Manni; 24th May 2018 at 17:17.
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Old 24th May 2018, 17:49   #50970  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
No. Don't listen to foozoor, he is just constantly trolling.
He said he hired someone for something in madVR.

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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
he hired someone? to keep madvr up to date?
You should ask madshi.
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Old 24th May 2018, 18:56   #50971  |  Link
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Just out of curiosity, what media player does Madshi himself use when testing/using MadVR?
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Old 24th May 2018, 19:04   #50972  |  Link
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I have following setup
- HTPC (i3, 8gb RAM, Nvidia 1050)
- Yamaha A3070 AVR
- JVC X790r Projector

I recently started using madVR with Kodi and MPC-HC and having a lot of issue playing 4K mkvs with HDR. When I play a file using MPC-HC (with madVR set to pass through HDR and no other settings changed), my projector automatically switches to HDR mode indicating that HDR signal is being received but the whole pictures has dark pink/purple tint on it. As soon as I end playback, everything goes back to normal. If I select Enhanced Video Renderer (Custom Presenter) in MPC-HC, video plays correctly but HDR tag is not passed so no auto switching is done by projector. HDR is turned off in Windows settings (and I am unable to turn it on because when I try to do that, everything goes black and by the time pictures resumes the prompt to confirm selection is gone)






I have also played with setting in madVR to convert HDR to SDR but the results have been less than ideal with more prominent noise and depending on the settings colors ranging for overly saturated to very pale.

I have already tried different HDMI cable and doing a clean install of Nvidia drivers but not much luck.

Separately, I'm having another issue which may or may not be related and that is I cannot set the resolution in Window or Nvidia control panel to 1080p/60. For some reason it keeps getting back to 4K/24. When I try to set the display setting to 1080p/60 the screen goes black and when it comes back I usually have a second or two to press a button to confirm changes otherwise it reverts back to 4k/24 setting. If in case I successfully change the settings it works for sometime and then randomly changes back to 4k/24.

I have checked on the AVR and video is set to "Pass through" on the projector it shows that it is receiving "4K signal". So there is something in the HTPC which keeps switching the resolution/frame rate. For the most part I can live with that setting but some of the programs (like Nvidia Control panel) do not scale even when scaling is set to 300% so they are impossible to use on 120" screen.
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Old 24th May 2018, 21:47   #50973  |  Link
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custom mode problem

Hi everyone!

Please someone could help me. I have tv Samsung UE55J6200 which connected to PC by hdmi cabel.

I tried to make right settings for watching movies slightly on 23,976 ghz. But i have problem with custom mode.

My adapter is GTX 770. I heard that NVIDIA has problem with right 24 hz. So in MADvr there are 23 hz mode is active, when on NVIDIA in custom mode is 24hz. Than I tried to optimize settings, watch film for 30-40 minutes than i go to settings and see this:



I picked mode without frame drops and repeats, push Test mode and screen of my TV becomes black. I suppose GPU are not supported right mode.

But why? How can i solve that problem? Someone has it? So how is right to calibrate this?
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Old 24th May 2018, 21:59   #50974  |  Link
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a black screen usual means your TV doesn't support the input. you can only try a different combination in hope it works.
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Old 24th May 2018, 22:26   #50975  |  Link
Koltos
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a black screen usual means your TV doesn't support the input. you can only try a different combination in hope it works.
So is only way to use mode with repeat frames?
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Old 25th May 2018, 00:12   #50976  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
No. Don't listen to foozoor, he is just constantly trolling.
Not this time. Madshi did say he was getting external help to deal with 3dlut stuff I think it was. Speculation is gonna happen in a forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfxnow View Post
Just out of curiosity, what media player does Madshi himself use when testing/using MadVR?
mpc-hc most likely I think, I'd rate mpc-be as the better player though.

On another note I was playing with FSE to test out 10bit color and noticed that the composition rate was listed as 60hz even though I had the screen at 24hz.

Last edited by ryrynz; 25th May 2018 at 00:15.
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Old 25th May 2018, 00:37   #50977  |  Link
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Not this time. Madshi did say he was getting external help to deal with 3dlut stuff I think it was. Speculation is gonna happen in a forum.
I know what madshi said, he is still using that information to troll.
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Old 25th May 2018, 04:27   #50978  |  Link
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but I would be surprised if you could get one 3DLUT that looks good for both Wonder Woman and the first Harry Potter movie.
I'm getting to old to chase mastering problems.

This is by far the most undesirable aspect of display calibration, even if you manage to understand all of the different aspects of display calibration (there is no button that says, "push here stupid"), you're still at the mercy of people who are supposed to know better, but still **** it up.
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Old 25th May 2018, 06:32   #50979  |  Link
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So is only way to use mode with repeat frames?
i have no clue what your TV accepts and what not.
so yes there is a possibility that you can fix it with a custom refreshrate.
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Old 25th May 2018, 08:02   #50980  |  Link
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I had no joy with the custom side of MadVR, if I tried anything else apart from the custom res that I set up in Nvidia that MadVR saw, then I just had a fuzzy screen mostly.

Best I could get it to was 1 Frame Repeat every 38 minutes with Custom res and Nvidia, better if I took some settings down, so just learnt to let that go.

Had to roll back to an earlier driver with Nvidia to get the custom res to stick as have many.
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