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Old 21st April 2019, 15:04   #1621  |  Link
SmilingWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dapperdan View Post
VMAF isn't designed for still images, but they do provide the tools to create your own VMAF for specific use cases (e.g. anime on a phone screen, or video game cobtebt) so it surprises me that no one has taken the framework and applied it to still images yet.

It should in theory be able to fuse the results of those other still image tests and create something even better aligned with human reported scores than any one alone. Presumably not Netflix's main use case but you'd think they deliver enough still images to make it worthwhile since they already have the skills.
I was looking into this very matter earlier today and the main problem is, as always for this kind of problems, the lack of high quality MOS datasets. In particular, the only "extensive" dataset I've found is TID2013, and even that only comprises of 2 kinds of image compression distortions, for 25 images, at 5 intensities = 250 distorted images and relative scores.

When calculating the SROCC for only the "compression" distortions (JPEG and J2K) these are the results:
Code:
--- top 33%
PSNRHA          0.9686
DSSIM          -0.9683
PSNRHVS         0.9677
PSNRHMA         0.9651
PSNRHVSM        0.9603
FSIMc           0.9589
FSIM            0.9580
VMAF_rb_v0.6.3  0.9524
SSIMULACRA     -0.9519
VMAF_v0.6.1     0.9505
WSNR            0.9468
--- middle
MSSIM           0.9427
VIFP            0.9380
--- low 33%
PSNRc           0.9200
CQM             0.9190
PSNR            0.9170
VSNR            0.9162
SSIM            0.9147
NQM             0.9023
I also tweeted to Jon Sneyers about the dataset they used to validate SSIMULACRA, will see if he can release it indipendently of a blogpost that now, after two years, is probably not going to happen.
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Old 24th April 2019, 17:41   #1622  |  Link
hajj_3
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dav1d decoder v0.3.0 is out:

Changes for 0.3.0 'Sailfish':
------------------------------

This is the final release for the numerous speed improvements of 0.3.0-rc.
It mostly:
- Fixes an annoying crash on SSSE3 that happened in the itx functions
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Old 24th April 2019, 19:14   #1623  |  Link
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Just because someone updates the changelog doesn't mean it has been released already. You can see actual release tags here, hopefully to help avoid confusing premature announcements:
https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d/tags

There is no 0.3.0 yet. There will need to be one or two additional maintenance changes before that is the case. Probably in a day or two.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 24th April 2019 at 19:16.
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Old 24th April 2019, 19:47   #1624  |  Link
Motenai Yoda
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there isn't a 3.0 tag yet, but you can always git the master branch with the last commit
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Last edited by Motenai Yoda; 24th April 2019 at 19:50.
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Old 25th April 2019, 12:35   #1625  |  Link
dapperdan
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Interesting snippet here:

https://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ng-131160.aspx

Quote:
what we believe is, it's really a variant of their VP9.

Jan Ozer: When you say variant you mean...

Oliver Gunasekara: So Intel bought a company called eBrisk which they then open-sourced and that is the team that has delivered this. And what they did for time to market was take their VP9 implementation and just remove all the functionality that is not appropriate for AV1, tweak the syntax to have a legal AV1. So the end result is, it is an AV1 encoder but it doesn't perform anywhere near like the capabilities that AV1 can deliver. That will come in the future.

Basically claims the AV1-SVT encoder has barely begun development. If that's the case should be interesting to follow it's progress.

I noticed a ticket on their tracker where people were asking them to tag a pre-release so they could begin the process of integrating with Austria etc and the Devs didn't think it was ready for even a pre-release status, then a press release came out announcing version 1.0 was ready.

Last edited by dapperdan; 25th April 2019 at 21:54.
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Old 25th April 2019, 15:17   #1626  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
- Fixes an annoying crash on SSSE3 that happened in the itx functions
This fix is only for non-Windows systems. So not important for most of us.
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Old 25th April 2019, 15:51   #1627  |  Link
Mjpeg
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Really nice writeup of adding tiles to rav1e - explains what tiles are nicely:
https://blog.rom1v.com/2019/04/imple...ding-in-rav1e/

(credit: reddit av1 channel https://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/)
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Old 25th April 2019, 16:16   #1628  |  Link
Beelzebubu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
This fix is only for non-Windows systems. So not important for most of us.
It depends on the build configuration (stack alignment, to be exact), but this could trigger on all systems.

[edit] removed some nonsense because I misread your reply, sorry about that.

Last edited by Beelzebubu; 25th April 2019 at 16:19.
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Old 25th April 2019, 19:12   #1629  |  Link
iwod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dapperdan View Post
Interesting snippet here:

https://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ap-131163.aspx




Basically claims the AV1-SVT encoder has barely begun development. If that's the case should be interesting to follow it's progress.

I noticed a ticket on their tracker where people were asking them to tag a pre-release so they could begin the process of integrating with Austria etc and the Devs didn't think it was ready for even a pre-release status, then a press release came out announcing version 1.0 was ready.
I cant find the quoted snippet anymore.
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Old 25th April 2019, 21:52   #1630  |  Link
dapperdan
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Sorry, posted wrong link:


https://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ng-131160.aspx
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Old 26th April 2019, 00:11   #1631  |  Link
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Good interview. I spoke with Oliver from NGCodec at NAB this year and I agree with a lot that was said.

FPGA is neat and disruptive because it's cloud native now, so you can get a lot of the flexibility of a pure software solution. I think there's a span of a few years where FPGAs make a lot of sense for dense live encoding, but then eventually ASIC encoders get even better / faster / more power efficient, and software encoders continue to offer better quality.

I think offline encoding for VOD streaming will still be done in software no matter what. I thought maybe there'd be a use case for FPGA AV1 encoding in the next year or so while software encoders (and CPUs) get fast enough to make AV1 encoding practical, but Oliver didn't seem to think this was a great use case. In retrospect, I'm inclined to agree.
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Old 27th April 2019, 21:09   #1632  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
I'd like to solicit opinions on splitting this thread up, especially into aom, rav1e, dav1d, still image (avif) news, as well as solicitations to get the best quality command lines. I'd like to create a separate AV1 forum entirely at this point, but one megathread does not a forum make.
I think for sure that AV1 needs it's whole forum section like hevc has. Within it there for separate threads for rav1e, media industry news, etc.

It's very difficult for a sporadic doom9 reader like myself to follow with what has been discussed in this thread...
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Old 3rd May 2019, 08:50   #1633  |  Link
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dav1d 0.3.0 decodes AV1 video’s 24% faster on SSSE3, 26% on SSE4.1 and 4% on AVX2 (all PC), and 12% faster on Arm64 (mobile).

https://medium.com/@ewoutterhoeven/d...h-af5bbf845a16
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Old 6th May 2019, 15:10   #1634  |  Link
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https://www.singhkays.com/blog/its-t...ith-av1-video/

I did a quick comparison of AV1 vs x264 vs VP9 at ultra low bitrates and how it can be used to replace GIFs in the browser
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Old 6th May 2019, 17:47   #1635  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singhkays View Post
https://www.singhkays.com/blog/its-t...ith-av1-video/

I did a quick comparison of AV1 vs x264 vs VP9 at ultra low bitrates and how it can be used to replace GIFs in the browser
"80% better than H.264".

The claimed 50% bit rate reduction of VP9 vs. AVC is not substantiated by independent studies, or in practice by anyone. Also, you can't add bit rate reductions, you have to multiply bit rate ratios. If B encodes to the same quality as A at 0.5x the bit rate, and C encodes to the same quality as B with 0.7x the bit rate, C theoretically is 0.7 x 0.5 = 0.35x the bit rate of A... a 65% reduction, not 80%. But in practice studies have shown that AV1 is roughly on par with HEVC when measured with objective metrics (PSNR, SSIM, VMAF, etc.), delivering roughly a 50% bit rate reduction over AVC. However, measured subjectively it's behind HEVC. Although all of the above measures video, and not still still image compression, I expect the results for image (I frame only) compression to be quite close. Mozilla published a study in 2013 which confirmed the superiority of HEVC still image compression over other existing formats. Strangely, the link to the study no longer works, but I saved a copy. Maybe one of the Mozilla guys can reshare it.

I agree that content publishers and web sites should be leveraging more powerful video codecs for still image compression. They can start with AVC, as device support is ubiquitous, and it is an improvement over JPEG and GIF. If/when they add support for an advanced codec, they will want the largest range of devices to support that codec, and they will want hardware decoding (for speed and vastly reduced power consumption). They can leverage HEVC (in HEIC container files... based on the ISO Base Media File Format, the evolution of .mov and .mp4) for the majority of devices which already have hardware HEVC support.
See https://nokiatech.github.io/heif/comparison.html

Google developed the WebP standard for still image compression, based on VP8 technology. It's only 10% more efficient than JPEG. What you're proposing would seem to be a new version of WebP.
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Old 6th May 2019, 22:27   #1636  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomV View Post
Mozilla published a study in 2013 which confirmed the superiority of HEVC still image compression over other existing formats. Strangely, the link to the study no longer works, but I saved a copy. Maybe one of the Mozilla guys can reshare it.
http://web.archive.org/web/201603121..._october_2013/
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Old 7th May 2019, 16:28   #1637  |  Link
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Possible partial GPU acceleration coming in Dav1d during this years GSoC.

I wonder how much latency is incurred for only partial GPU decode, some guy going by atomnuker discussed possible GPU AV1 at FOSSDEM last year I think.
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Old 7th May 2019, 17:45   #1638  |  Link
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Support for offloading some of the dav1d AV1 video decoder's work to GPUs using compute shaders in OpenGL/Vulkan/Metal/Direct3D.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...-2019-Projects
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Old 7th May 2019, 18:19   #1639  |  Link
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Don't get too excited quite yet, such efforts have in the past been problematic to get truely faster. We'll have to see.
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Old 7th May 2019, 19:57   #1640  |  Link
soresu
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I'd be less interested in faster playback using GPU in favor of lower power for phones prior to decoder ASIC rollouts, which probably wont be until at least next year.

I think Rockchip's recently announced RK3588 SoC for 2020 has an AV1 decoder, but details were sparse in the announcement.

The thing which concerns me most is the lack of any announcement from Qualcomm in support of AV1, considering their huge market share in Android devices
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