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Old 26th October 2017, 14:09   #46861  |  Link
mzso
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
Nope. I even quoted it....
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Old 26th October 2017, 17:00   #46862  |  Link
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Feedback on RCA and RRN:
  • Both RCA and RRN nicely clean the image.
  • For most of the low-quality artifact-ridden DVD/VCD/Internet downloaded content that I have, RCA at strength setting of 1 to 5 and RRN at strength setting of 1 to 3 do wonders.
  • I do not like “don’t reduce texture detail” for any strength setting in case of RCA.
  • I prefer to use both RCA and RRN with “process chroma channels, too” selected.
  • Using RRN followed by application of “add grain” in upscaling refinement looked pretty cool. I will be testing that more on the weekend.
  • I think I found one bug: using the keyboard shortcut to increase the RRN strength, I am not able to go beyond 5, while I can go up to 12 in the settings. Not that I need to use that high strength setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Dolby Vision consists of an additional video stream/layer, and additional metadata. What madVR could in theory do is:

1) madVR could make use of the additional video layer + additional metadata to move the video up from 10bit to 12bit+. This should produce a benefit for every display, regardless of whether it supports Dolby Vision or not, or whether it even supports HDR or not.

2) madVR could behave like any official Dolby Vision source device and send the video to a Dolby Vision compatible display, including all the dynamic metadata etc. This is theoretically possible, with any HDMI 1.4+ GPU, as long as it supports a perfect RGB 8bit "passthrough", where all bits stay untouched by the GPU driver (and Windows). The reason this would work (if perfect passthrough is available) is that the dynamic Dolby metadata is actually encoded into the image pixels, as a sort of watermark. So it doesn't require any specific HDMI version, and it even works if there's an AVR in the middle which doesn't support Dolby Vision (as long as the AVR keeps the watermarked pixels untouched).

The whole Dolby Vision processing is very complicated, but I would be willing to at least give 1) a try, maybe even 2), but it would require me to get access to the decoded Dolby Vision enhancement layer, plus to all the added Dolby metadata information contained in the base + enhancement layers.

So basically for any of this to work, first the splitter + decoder would have to be enhanced to deliver the Dolby Vision information to madVR. Then I could look into how to process it all.
It would be really great if 2) could be done, as besides Dolby Vision output we will also be able to confirm which GPU hardware and what driver settings lead to bitperfect output of madVR rendered frames.
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Old 26th October 2017, 18:10   #46863  |  Link
thewildsun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
RAM being an issue would explain why it only happens after a while of smooth playback. SuperRes doesn't sound to me as if it would explain higher RAM usage, though. Are we talking CPU RAM or GPU VRAM, btw?
I was originally talking about CPU RAM, but I'm not sure anymore.

I mentioned before that disabling SuperRes on ReconSoft fixed the issue for me, but later the frame drop problem still happened with SuperRes off. I think ultimately the problem was related to high GPU usage, rather than SuperRes specifically. While troubleshooting a different problem, I replaced the PSU with a much higher quality PSU, and I believe this fully solved the frame drop problem, as I was able to play a video for 20 minutes at 60% GPU usage with no frame drops.

However, I'm still stuck trying to figure out a new problem, which is an audio crackle which gets louder the higher the GPU usage is. I've only been able to reproduce it in madVR so far -- I've tried FurMark as well as games with unlocked FPS to maximize GPU use and they did not produce this crackle sound. It doesn't seem like GPU coil whine to me, but I could be wrong about that. The biggest problem with this crackle is that I can hear it through my speakers. My audio chain looks like this:

NVIDIA GPU (HDMI) -> AV Receiver -> Power Amplifier -> Speakers.

I have read that others have resolved coil whine getting to the speakers by using GPU HDMI instead of onboard audio, but my audio issue happens over HDMI. Things I have tried:
  • Replace the PSU (Antec -> EVGA P2)
  • Try three different GPUs (EVGA GTX 1070, MSI GTX 1060, RX 480). The RX 480 came from a different computer of mine which is very similar, but it does not have the GPU crackle when installed in the other computer using the same madVR settings.
  • Swap motherboard (Gigabyte -> Asus)
  • Try new boot SSD (Crucial -> Samsung)
  • Try different RAM
  • Try different CPU cooler
  • Try different HDMI cable
  • Reinstall Windows 10
  • Disable onboard audio in BIOS
  • Checked DPC latency with LatencyMon and DPC Latency Checker, neither showed any issues
  • Move computer to different floor on house to see if there is a ground loop issue. I didn't connect speakers after moving it, but I did still hear the crackle from the computer itself.
  • Use onboard graphics instead of discrete GPU. This does eliminate all crackle.
  • Try front headphone port on PC. The crackle on the GPU does not travel to the headphones.

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but I figure it's somewhat relevant because madVR is the only thing I know of so far that triggers this GPU crackle. Does anyone have any ideas? About the only thing left I have to try is replacing the CPU (4790K) or the PC case, I think...

Edit: Here is a recording of the crackle, recorded near the GPU itself (volume needs to be turned up a bit): https://clyp.it/zgj20ezf#

Edit2: I was able to also reproduce the crackle while running MPDN on the highest quality preset, confirming that it's not specific to madVR.

Last edited by thewildsun; 27th October 2017 at 04:14.
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Old 26th October 2017, 18:29   #46864  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I've replied to your posts in some detail, but I don't think you've replied to my latest suggestions and comments. I'm not going to add any more hints until you reply to all my suggestions and comments.
i replied to all suggestions i read, if i miss your (i dont think) sorry maybe i didnt see wasnt my intention

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Originally Posted by Blackwalker View Post
i'd like to thx el Filou and who give me some tips!
Now it's not perfect, but now i can play without shuttering hdr 4k movie!

I have to test more and more for better result but i wanna say thx!

reducing decode CPU and GPU at 4 (both) helped and set also bilinear and dvxa everywhere in madvr settings helped too.

Continue with testing!

now looks i can play, but still some little iussue

sorry madshi , i checked all reply to my questions and i didnt find your reply. Just to see what your suggestions and try to understand why i miss them!
my english is not good ok...


Anyway, i have some iussue when i my htpc start its already in HDR mode, my tv is a LG 65B6V.
When i start to play the movie it stay in hdr mode, but when i double click on mpc-hc and it go to full screen now always stay in HDR mode....sometimes i have to switch to full/windows severl times....wondering why!

Last edited by Blackwalker; 26th October 2017 at 18:39.
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Old 26th October 2017, 19:57   #46865  |  Link
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So i updated the great fall creators BS windows 10 and right away i had several problems and one of them is making me thinking in returning to windows 8.1 ASAP. No FSE on madvr??? Well it didnt crash the player but when it goes to FSE i get black screen with sound. If i return to windowed mode i get video again without closing it. And when i close video the video stays almost like recorded on screen. The media player freeze and i need to ctrl-alt-del and close the process .exe. Tested in MPC, jriver, zoom player, mpc-be, daum pot.

Last edited by xabregas; 26th October 2017 at 20:54.
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Old 26th October 2017, 20:58   #46866  |  Link
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Yes, Windows 10 and FSE don't play well together. This has been true before the latest update but your issue sounds much worse.

Have you reinstalled your video drivers after the update? I seem to have to reinstall all my drivers after these feature updates.
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Old 26th October 2017, 21:54   #46867  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Yes, Windows 10 and FSE don't play well together. This has been true before the latest update but your issue sounds much worse.

Have you reinstalled your video drivers after the update? I seem to have to reinstall all my drivers after these feature updates.
Yes. I unninstalled and installed audio and video drivers again and tried several versions of madVR. I even tought it was my gtx 750 ti and removed it from the computer and activated the intel hd 4600 and same thing. I think its a new kind of desktop composition from my little knowledge about crap windows 10. But i have no patiente for waiting so i will revert to windows 8.1 and when they solve this messed up windows i will probably (never) return to windows 10.
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Old 26th October 2017, 21:58   #46868  |  Link
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It's all pagan voodoo at the moment for me. After I downgraded to 385.69 with W10 FCU / latest madVR, mpc-hc worked with FSE disabled. Pretty consistently. Yesterday I tried Kodi DSPlayer with the Elysium trailer and that worked with FSE enabled - I was planning to report here today but now, neither DSPlayer, nor mpc-HC works. Regardless of FSE being enabled or disabled. I need to spend more time on feng shui to be able to predict when it'll work next
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Old 26th October 2017, 22:03   #46869  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Yes, Windows 10 and FSE don't play well together. This has been true before the latest update but your issue sounds much worse.
Which is weird, because FSE games are just fine. I play everything like that for better GSYNC behavior. You would think if games can do it, madVR should manage.
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Old 26th October 2017, 22:14   #46870  |  Link
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So here's something weird I just can't explain.

I'm trying to play an HDR HEVC 4k file. My TV is 2160p so there is no image upscaling here, only chroma.

Now, if I set chroma upsampling to something simple like Lanczos3 - it plays fine and the rendering time is ~6ms. However, if I change chroma upsampling to NNEDI 32 neurons or NGU AA High/Medium, I get a rendering time of ~20-30ms and dropping frames every few seconds. Every time it I see frames dropped, I can also see that the present queue empties to 0 and quickly refills.

I don't understand why it's dropping frames, 20-30ms should be fine for 24p content.

Things that don't make a difference: FSE/Windowed, CPU queue size, Delay-or-not until queue is full.

My setup: Win10, GTX 1050, 385.28, latest madVR, D3D11 decoding with LAV

Thanks for any help in advance!

Last edited by PurpleMan; 26th October 2017 at 22:17.
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Old 26th October 2017, 22:33   #46871  |  Link
xabregas
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New update: Ive tried one last time and voila FSE works with madvr 0.90.24. With directx11 only. No dx9....................

But ive read here it can change any moment so probably will not endure.

I guess its obvious what is broken here. Windows 10 FCU. And these people get payed to do this updates???

Windows 10 is the crapiest thing ever created. They skipped number 9 because number 9 is cursed for some reason i dont undertsand. Now they curse us with this nightmate creators update. Even the name sounds like a vilain coming from a Ridley Scott movie.
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Old 26th October 2017, 23:51   #46872  |  Link
xabregas
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Originally Posted by PurpleMan View Post
So here's something weird I just can't explain.

I'm trying to play an HDR HEVC 4k file. My TV is 2160p so there is no image upscaling here, only chroma.

Now, if I set chroma upsampling to something simple like Lanczos3 - it plays fine and the rendering time is ~6ms. However, if I change chroma upsampling to NNEDI 32 neurons or NGU AA High/Medium, I get a rendering time of ~20-30ms and dropping frames every few seconds. Every time it I see frames dropped, I can also see that the present queue empties to 0 and quickly refills.

I don't understand why it's dropping frames, 20-30ms should be fine for 24p content.

Things that don't make a difference: FSE/Windowed, CPU queue size, Delay-or-not until queue is full.

My setup: Win10, GTX 1050, 385.28, latest madVR, D3D11 decoding with LAV

Thanks for any help in advance!
Hmmm Probably test it with software decoding on lav. But i think the problem is obvious. Your gpu is almost like mine GTX 750 ti (probably yours is a bit worst because no Ti). My 750 Ti can handle NGU antialiasing quality with ~25ms and no drops but its with 1080p on 1080p screen without hardware acceleration.

4k speaking i think its too much for a gtx 1050 to handle. You probably can get away with nnedi 16 neurons and no hardware acceleration without drops. Probably. And why do u use d3d11 on lav?? Ive heard its not stable yet. Test it with software decoding if u can or maybe CUDA???
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Old 26th October 2017, 23:54   #46873  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
What I said is a scientific fact. I explicitly talked about displays with "perfect fillrate", though. In real life no display has a perfect fillrate, so it's not as clear cut in real life as it is in theory. Still, if a 1080p display and a 4K display have identical properties (other than resolution), there's no way the 1080p will be able to compete with the 4K display, if you use madVR quality upscaling.
...and to put more weight behind that statement, this is consistent with what is said in Poynton's book for example, where he explains the concept of point spread function (PSF). The reason why LCD screens behave poorly in that regard is that they have a box PSF (in layman's terms, "square pixels"). In contrast, good ol'CRTs are better at this, because they have a gaussian PSF.
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Old 27th October 2017, 03:57   #46874  |  Link
PurpleMan
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Originally Posted by xabregas View Post
Hmmm Probably test it with software decoding on lav. But i think the problem is obvious. Your gpu is almost like mine GTX 750 ti (probably yours is a bit worst because no Ti). My 750 Ti can handle NGU antialiasing quality with ~25ms and no drops but its with 1080p on 1080p screen without hardware acceleration.

4k speaking i think its too much for a gtx 1050 to handle. You probably can get away with nnedi 16 neurons and no hardware acceleration without drops. Probably. And why do u use d3d11 on lav?? Ive heard its not stable yet. Test it with software decoding if u can or maybe CUDA???
Thanks, but there are a few holes in this theory that I'm trying to work out -

1. The decoder queue has plenty of frames in it, it's only the present frame that's getting empty.

2. If the GPU would be too overloaded with decoding, you'd expect the render time to be way more than 20-30ms. I mean, If it's so swamped with decoding, I'd imagine it wouldn't be able keep up with madVR's processing, which it seems to.

maybe @madshi has some insight here.

Thanks!
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Old 27th October 2017, 05:02   #46875  |  Link
Reclunk
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Originally Posted by thewildsun View Post

NVIDIA GPU (HDMI) -> AV Receiver -> Power Amplifier -> Speakers.

I have read that others have resolved coil whine getting to the speakers by using GPU HDMI instead of onboard audio, but my audio issue happens over HDMI.
Disable the audio driver from your motherboard. Ie: Realtek ; then it defaults to your GPU/Reciever. Cured a bunch of my headaches, all through HDMI.

Last edited by Reclunk; 27th October 2017 at 05:10.
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Old 27th October 2017, 06:47   #46876  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by PurpleMan View Post
So here's something weird I just can't explain.

I'm trying to play an HDR HEVC 4k file. My TV is 2160p so there is no image upscaling here, only chroma.

Now, if I set chroma upsampling to something simple like Lanczos3 - it plays fine and the rendering time is ~6ms. However, if I change chroma upsampling to NNEDI 32 neurons or NGU AA High/Medium, I get a rendering time of ~20-30ms and dropping frames every few seconds. Every time it I see frames dropped, I can also see that the present queue empties to 0 and quickly refills.

I don't understand why it's dropping frames, 20-30ms should be fine for 24p content.

Things that don't make a difference: FSE/Windowed, CPU queue size, Delay-or-not until queue is full.

My setup: Win10, GTX 1050, 385.28, latest madVR, D3D11 decoding with LAV

Thanks for any help in advance!

can you make a screen of the OSD?
i feel like an broken record but a 2 GB can easily run out of Vram when used for UHD you can check that too using GPU-Z (1850-1950 usually means you are out of Vram but not always.)
Quote:
Thanks, but there are a few holes in this theory that I'm trying to work out -

1. The decoder queue has plenty of frames in it, it's only the present frame that's getting empty.

2. If the GPU would be too overloaded with decoding, you'd expect the render time to be way more than 20-30ms. I mean, If it's so swamped with decoding, I'd imagine it wouldn't be able keep up with madVR's processing, which it seems to.
hardware decoding on a 1050 ti is literally "free" it is done on an specialized chip not on the GPU it self. the performances "loss" can be usually ignored.
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Originally Posted by xabregas View Post
Hmmm Probably test it with software decoding on lav. But i think the problem is obvious. Your gpu is almost like mine GTX 750 ti (probably yours is a bit worst because no Ti). My 750 Ti can handle NGU antialiasing quality with ~25ms and no drops but its with 1080p on 1080p screen without hardware acceleration.

4k speaking i think its too much for a gtx 1050 to handle. You probably can get away with nnedi 16 neurons and no hardware acceleration without drops. Probably. And why do u use d3d11 on lav?? Ive heard its not stable yet. Test it with software decoding if u can or maybe CUDA???
a 1050 is a notable faster card than a 750 ti.
and as a reminder CUVID has problems...
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Old 27th October 2017, 10:36   #46877  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
LAV relies on the new subtitle interface to work when you use D3D11 in native mode, as it doesn't have any other way to render menus otherwise. The other decode modes have a fallback, but that won't work with D3D11. There is nothing really to be done about that.

Stop anything else from stealing the subtitle interface away, or wait until madshi implements support for multiple providers. Or just disable hardware decoding for DVDs, it has its own DVD checkbox for a reason, and SD MPEG2 is hardly a challenge to decode.
Thanks for this explanation, I think we understand the situation far better now that both you and Madshi have explained clearly what was happening at each level.

I'll follow your suggestion to disable hardware decoding for DVD, that makes complete sense until Madshi implements support for multiple providers (not necessary for me, as you say with a 1080Ti I can easily decode SD MPEG2 with software).

As far as I'm concerned, problem solved as I can have D3D11 acceleration on all the time with an auto exception for DVDs.

Thanks again!
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Old 27th October 2017, 10:37   #46878  |  Link
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Originally Posted by thewildsun View Post
However, I'm still stuck trying to figure out a new problem, which is an audio crackle which gets louder the higher the GPU usage is.
I had the same problem and I fixed it by changing my avr.

Such problems are quite specific to the setup and I had to go through a lot of trial and error before it got fixed.
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Old 27th October 2017, 12:10   #46879  |  Link
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hardware decoding on a 1050 ti is literally "free" it is done on an specialized chip not on the GPU it self.
In a specialized part of the GPU itself.
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Old 27th October 2017, 15:40   #46880  |  Link
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For people who have problems with FSE in Windows 1709, did you check if the "disable fullscreen optmiizations" compatibility option wasn't re-enabled for your media player(s) by the update?

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Originally Posted by d3rd3vil View Post
So all in all HDR10 passthrough doesnt work properly as well? Then Dolby Vision will never work We need DV
Mate, of your 32 posts on this forum, most of them are you repeatedly asking for ETAs for Dolby Vision support in various software. Do you own Dolby shares or something? Are you really in such a hurry? Support won't come sooner the more you bother devs about it, you know.
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