Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 1st May 2017, 21:31   #43561  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight77 View Post
Hi guys, semi-OT here: my HTPC is using a GTX1070, let's say 99% just for madvr/Kodi and music. My Nvidia drivers are ones of a January release and everything works fine, should I update anyway or since everything is running well just let it be?
If you don't need HDR and everything else is working, don't update.
Q-the-STORM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2017, 21:59   #43562  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Can you guys stop quoting entire posts and writing one line replies to it, it's annoying as hell.
All you have to do is delete everything but what you're replying to within the quote /quote statements.. Pretty simple stuff.

Last edited by ryrynz; 1st May 2017 at 22:01.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 10:07   #43563  |  Link
Tobiwan
Registered User
 
Tobiwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 31
Need help with Nvidia settings

Hi,

I have a few questions about the madVR settings with Nvidia etc and maybe someone can help me with it, because I always had a AMD card in the past and its very hard to understand all off it now, even with the wikis etc.

Nvidia have several VSYNC settings, I try fast (which I use for gaming too) but get video/picture disturbances at the playback; VSYNC off make nothing no speed benefit to VSYNC on... what are you use?

I'm trying a lot of settings to get a good rendering time for my 4K display with my 1060 card, what are you think about it?

Config1: 1080p
Chroma NNEDI3-64 / doubling xbr 100 / scaling Lanczos3 AR = ~20.45ms
Config2: 1080p
Chroma Lanczos4 AR / doubling xbr 100 / scaling Lanczos3 AR = ~10ms
Config3: 1080p
Chroma Lanczos4 AR / upscaling Jinc = ~14.80ms
Tobiwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 11:02   #43564  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Ditch NNEDI3 for chroma and look at NGU AA, also compare NGU vs xbr and decide what you like there. Lanczos AR is fine for extra scaling, I also like Jinc AR here.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 11:53   #43565  |  Link
Tobiwan
Registered User
 
Tobiwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 31
Thank you ryrynz for your help:

NGU AA low + xbr 100 + Lanczos3 AR = ~11ms
NGU AA med + xbr 100 + Lanczos3 AR = ~12.80ms
NGU AA high + xbr 100 + Lanczos3 AR = ~16.00ms

XBR runs best as doubling on my system, I can use NGU's at low or the xbr 100...

What brings more benefit the upscaling or the doubling? If I use NGU AA for the chroma upscaling which NGU I should use for the doubling? What should be the target ms at the end?

Last edited by Tobiwan; 2nd May 2017 at 12:35.
Tobiwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 12:42   #43566  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 447
I'd prioritize it like this: luma doubling > other enhancements > further upscaling/downscaling > chroma upscaling > chroma doubling. There are some situations where the chroma upscaling algorithm can make a noticeable difference, but they're few and far between, and the difference between chroma doubling algorithms will likely be invisible. The target ms depends on the frame rate of the content you watch, with 24fps content it's 41.67ms and with 60fps content it's 16.67ms. However you should probably leave 1-1.5ms of headroom. Ultimately what matters is that your buffers stay full, so just crank up your settings until your card can't keep up anymore and dial them back from there.

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 2nd May 2017 at 12:45.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 13:24   #43567  |  Link
Tobiwan
Registered User
 
Tobiwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 31
41.67ms is very high, everything over 30ms is no go for me, the video lags even with smooth motion
Tobiwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 13:46   #43568  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 447
Well, like I said it depends on the content. If anything over ~30ms lags then you're probably watching 30fps content (a frame every 33.33ms). You can create profiles with different settings for different kinds of content.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 15:14   #43569  |  Link
Tobiwan
Registered User
 
Tobiwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 31
I'm not really sure what are you mean Ver Greeneyes. The rendering time in ms only means how fast it card works with the settings what does this have to do with the fps? Smooth motion is always on for me because my PC display doesn't support the original timings, so why should I care about the fps? Smooth motion "fix" the issue, I only need a fast and good rendering setting.
Tobiwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 16:22   #43570  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
the rendertime give on how long it takes to render a frame.

with a 24 fps source you have ~42 ms to render this frame with a 30 FPS source you have ~33 ms to render a frame and with a 60 fps source you have ~16 ms.

so stable rendertime of 38 ms for a 24 FPS source should be totally stable.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 17:06   #43571  |  Link
Tobiwan
Registered User
 
Tobiwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 31
Ok thank you, I think I understand it now. If I can run a 23fps without problems I can run every fps, so I tweak here. Good.

Did I get glitches and dropped frames because the settings are to high? I already go from NGU AA high to med but glitches too.

Last edited by Tobiwan; 3rd May 2017 at 13:22.
Tobiwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 17:39   #43572  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiwan View Post
If I can run a 23fps without problems I can run every fps, so I tweak here. Good.
No, not really. Think of every frame as a still image. The time your card needs to upscale that image (or whatever else) depends on how big the image is, and how big the result is. So for example, it might take 12ms to upscale 720p input to 1440p, and 27ms to upscale 1080p input to 2160p.

But the frame rate of the content you're watching determines the budget your card has to actually finish what it's doing. So with the previous example you'd be able to watch 30fps content (33.33ms budget) at full speed in both cases, but for 60fps content (16.67ms budget) the 1080p video would stutter whereas the 720p video would still be fine.

So you have two options:
1) select settings that work for the highest resolution, highest frame rate content you have (e.g. 1080p at 60fps). Those settings should then work for everything else too*.
2) create settings for each kind of content you care about - one set of settings for 720p at 30fps, one set for 1080p at 60fps and so on. This is more work, but it lets you use more demanding options for lower quality content.

* There is a caveat to this - if you're displaying 1080p content on a 1080p monitor it doesn't have to do any upscaling, so half the settings will go unused. In that case upscaling 720p content might be more expensive.

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 2nd May 2017 at 17:48.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 18:01   #43573  |  Link
Tobiwan
Registered User
 
Tobiwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 31
I try different profiles with my old AMD card but wasn't happy and give up, so I need to find anything for all. My display is 4K, everything is upscale from 1080p to 2160p. That's the point about my question "What brings more benefit the upscaling or the doubling?", because its already doubled on my display and if I understand it right its two times doubled 1x upscaling from 1080p to 2160p + 2160p doubled with XBR...

My old config runs not that bad: chroma Lanczos3 AR + xbr 100 doubled = ~12.30ms with peaks of 41ms max... but did I really need the two or quad doublings? I have no idea why the are presentation glitches 105 / 9min the are on every setting, I also check the general settings etc and try a bit.

Last edited by Tobiwan; 2nd May 2017 at 19:00.
Tobiwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 19:30   #43574  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
You don't want extra doubling, super sampling video has very limited benefits and some costs. Unless you are using the super sampling option in madVR's image doubling (not recommended) you don't get any extra doubling, the doubling algorithm is simply the algorithm used to do the 1080p to 2160p resize.

When using your old config and watching 1080p the video was simply doubled to 2160p using xbr 100, Lanczos3 did not to do anything after that because you wanted to display it at 2160p. If you needed to upscale it a little bit after doubling (e.g. if it was cropped 1080p) Lanczos3 would be the method used to upscale it further.

edit: The pure doubling algorithms (NGU, NNEDI3, xBR) can offer better quality than the equation based methods like Jinc, Lanczos, Cubic, etc. because they can treat edges differently and other similar tricks involving more complex models of image content.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 2nd May 2017 at 19:33.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 20:16   #43575  |  Link
Tobiwan
Registered User
 
Tobiwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 31
Very interesting Asmodian! Any idea why I have the presentation glitches and dropped frames? Its not any of the algorithms settings, not separate devices settings, vsync is on with present a frame for every VSync... Display: "vsync 16.67ms, frame 41.71ms" Nvidia driver is 381.89 latest
Tobiwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2017, 22:00   #43576  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Are we talking only a few glitches and dropped frames or all the time? Are you in Adaptive mode for your Nvidia graphics card?
Upload your files somewhere else, it takes days to get approved here.
For starters reset madVR to defaults using the batch file inside the directory and test that, if that doesn't change anything uninstall and reinstall your drivers then report back.

Last edited by ryrynz; 2nd May 2017 at 22:02.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2017, 00:54   #43577  |  Link
Georgel
Visual Novel Dev.
 
Georgel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 200
Seems that I've found a very happy place with madVR settings for my rather lower quality, not so well encoded content (anime music videos).

The settings are basically debanding to max, some edge thinning and everything running in soft cubic.

For movies it looks a bit too soft, but for anime music videos and especially for those that weren't properly encoded, it looks awesome!
Georgel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2017, 13:10   #43578  |  Link
mrmojo666
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 107
Hi all,

I have a question on HDR (maybe on metadata).

I have a amd rx460

When i try to play HDR video with madvr seems that something is not going as I expected .

Image looks washed out and color not correctly saturated. Even Tv switch correctly to HDR mode.

I start to think metadata are not sent to TV, because if i check / uncheck "send metadata.." nothing changes. (obviously win10 api is selected)

If if play that file using win10 tv and video player looks gorgeous: deep black , bright whites and colored.

If turn off HDR in win10 slider i got totally wrong image in win10 tv and video player and in madvr i got a good sdr version of video.

How can I debug this behavior ?
mrmojo666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2017, 13:18   #43579  |  Link
Tobiwan
Registered User
 
Tobiwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Are we talking only a few glitches and dropped frames or all the time? Are you in Adaptive mode for your Nvidia graphics card?
Upload your files somewhere else, it takes days to get approved here.
For starters reset madVR to defaults using the batch file inside the directory and test that, if that doesn't change anything uninstall and reinstall your drivers then report back.
The MPC runs at maximum power mode. I have reset all the settings and the problems are gone, I don't know why, but no glitches and dropped frames anymore, before the reset 115 dropped frames and 100 glitches in 10min.

I also find good stats for me: chroma NGU AA high + xbr 100 double = ~16-27ms / 23.976fps smooth motion on

At the old configs there was always double+quad xbr active, result was 40+ms, now without quad its ok for me I think.

Last edited by Tobiwan; 3rd May 2017 at 13:35.
Tobiwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2017, 13:52   #43580  |  Link
pose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 69
Is there any point in ticking "this display is already calibrated" if you only use an ICC profile for your monitor?

Tobiwan, what videocard are you using?
pose is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.