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Old 12th January 2018, 18:54   #48281  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Isn't 'smooth motion' a last resort setting and a huge memory hog? Why do people desire to render 23.976 @ 60Hz? Besides being 'free' and not costing any memory, wouldn't 'match refresh rate' be the better starting point option? If you're draining your queue down to nothing because you're out of memory, no wonder the screen is black right off the bat. Start with good basic settings. You shouldn't get black screens and fumble with a bunch of irrelevant settings trying to correct it imo.
SM is pretty much free. it doesn't cast much memory either.
and if you run out of Vram you will not get a black screen you will just get rendertimes of doom.
the majority of TVs especially the majority of 2017 Samsung panels can't do 24p ever through nearly all TV support it as an input type.
they always turn it into 60 FPS by doing a 3:2 pull down(progressive).
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Old 12th January 2018, 19:28   #48282  |  Link
brazen1
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You've lost me? I have a 240Hz Samsung panel.
240 divided by 24 = a perfect 10. It is devisable with no frames missing so there is no need for any pulldown.
120Hz divided by 24 = a perfect 5 with no frames missing the matched refresh rate of the TV either nor any need for pulldown.
60Hz divided by 24 = an imperfect match resulting in 12 frames missing which requires a 3:2 pulldown.
Every OSD including my panel shows my 24p movie is playing at 24Hz (judder free I might add) with no indication of a 3:2 pulldown in use.
What am I missing indicating my display, and the majority of TV's as you have pointed out, are actually rendering at 60Hz via 3:2 pulldown and how do I confirm this?

I understand IF the signal sent from a PC (just like a cable TV broadcast or what ever) is incorrectly sent at 60Hz, the panel is going to have to do a 3:2 pulldown since there will be 12 frames missing. But, we are not dealing with TV broadcast here. We are using madVR applied to file playback of (mostly) 23.976 video. Imo, exactly matching 23.976 (and even correcting it slightly to 24.000) presents the best picture quality. 23.976 played at 60Hz is simply wrong, imo of course.
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Last edited by brazen1; 12th January 2018 at 19:46.
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Old 12th January 2018, 19:43   #48283  |  Link
huhn
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majority=! all.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/mu7600
and never forget that more expensive models are sold in way lower quantities.

about 240 HZ on a VA panel... they have problems to get below 16 ms repsonse time or even below 20 ms in bad cases and they are far away from 4 ms...
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Old 12th January 2018, 20:00   #48284  |  Link
brazen1
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huhn? Why are you presenting me a review about some TV or a response time "problem" about 240Hz that doesn't affect my movie watching experience? I thought we were about to discuss 3:2 pulldowns, why matching refresh rates is not a good idea, and the benefits of using 'smooth motion' before other adjustments would be considered?
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10v1803 X5690 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 8bit Desktop @60Hz 8,10,12bit @Matched Refresh Rates
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD DVDFab
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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Old 12th January 2018, 20:35   #48285  |  Link
huhn
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this TV can't do 24p like most other lower price 2017.
and this TV can't match 24p refreshrates so this is a perfect example of a TV where SM is closer to cinema than refreshrate matching.

this page test this.

and you shouldn't believe every number put on a TV.
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Old 12th January 2018, 21:13   #48286  |  Link
brazen1
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The refresh rate of that TV is 60Hz as advertised and you get (or don't get) what you pay for. I understand your point but by a show of hands, how many here are using a 60Hz display with madVR? To say "majority=! all.", then I am in the wrong forum apparently. My bad.

I've seen your response too. "Many TV's just work better with PC if they can do 60hz. Like mine. ". "if they can do 60Hz like yours" sounds like a benefit vs 120Hz. I simply disagree and will leave it at that.

I appear to have opened a can of worms. My intention was to help the person from a different perspective and provide my reasoning. That persons TV is a 120Hz refresh rate model fwiw. I don't know why all of the backlash but I'll leave it to you guys to sort him out and just go back to lurking.
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10v1803 X5690 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 8bit Desktop @60Hz 8,10,12bit @Matched Refresh Rates
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD DVDFab
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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Old 12th January 2018, 21:32   #48287  |  Link
nussman
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You are asking why people use 60hz for 24p sources.
If your display support 24p without any disadvantages (i.e. RGB 4:4:4, 3:2 pulldown etc.) there is no need to use 60hz.
Others can use SM. So whats your point?
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Old 12th January 2018, 21:46   #48288  |  Link
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Content is smoother for many people using 60hz with smooth motion. I don't like the detail loss so I'll accept some panning "judder" for Anime and the likes to retain resolution.
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Old 12th January 2018, 21:47   #48289  |  Link
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You cannot send more than 60 Hz to your TV. Right now there are no TVs that support 120Hz input at their native resolution, at least that I know of. Certainly not the lg55LF6300. From Consumer Reports: "Though it claims a "TruMotion 120" refresh rate, it's a 60Hz set and performs like one, with only fair motion blur reduction." You would need to input 24Hz. Native 120Hz input should be soon!

I use smooth motion for 24/1.001 fps content on my LG OLED55C7P. I do have a tuned custom refresh rate for 24p that doesn't drop any frames within >6 hours but the TV switching to another refresh rate bothers me more than smooth motion does (I don't notice smooth motion v.s. a matched refresh rate). For the majority of users smooth motion is a great place to start and end; you get high quality video without judder and you don't have to fiddle with timings or have the display change its refresh rate every time you open or close a video. I wouldn't call smooth motion a last resort and its performance and memory impact is very minor if you use ordered dithering (which I think looks better on my TV than either ED dithering option anyway ). Smooth motion is even better on a 120Hz display, I used it on my 120Hz monitor so I could use 120.000Hz instead of trying to tune a custom 119.880Hz mode without drops or repeats.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 12th January 2018 at 21:53.
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Old 12th January 2018, 22:13   #48290  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
I appear to have opened a can of worms.
Heh, take it easy. I for example lose 4:4:4 if I try to use 24hz input and it doesn't look any better than 60hz with SM. Your question just was so broad that I thought a quick comment would do without opening any cans
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Old 12th January 2018, 22:29   #48291  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
The refresh rate of that TV is 60Hz as advertised and you get (or don't get) what you pay for. I understand your point but by a show of hands, how many here are using a 60Hz display with madVR? To say "majority=! all.", then I am in the wrong forum apparently. My bad.
it's not advertised as 60 HZ. they measured 60. BTW the 65JS8500 was measured at 120 hz.
Quote:
I've seen your response too. "Many TV's just work better with PC if they can do 60hz. Like mine. ". "if they can do 60Hz like yours" sounds like a benefit vs 120Hz. I simply disagree and will leave it at that.
my screen has a native 120 HZ that doesn't mean it can do that properly...
and yeah it is advertised at 800/960 hz.
Quote:
I appear to have opened a can of worms. My intention was to help the person from a different perspective and provide my reasoning. That persons TV is a 120Hz refresh rate model fwiw. I don't know why all of the backlash but I'll leave it to you guys to sort him out and just go back to lurking.
so what other explanation do you want?
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Old 12th January 2018, 22:51   #48292  |  Link
mclingo
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question, and this feels like a silly one, does it take a lot more processing to upscale a 720p DVDscr movie running at 29,70 hz than it would a 1080p bluray rip at 23,976 - I ask as my usual settings are struggling to play it smoothly, its glitching rather than dropping/repeating frames, its playing it at the correct mode, just think my RX550 is worse than I thought.

With no processing the 720p DVD scr only plays smooth with lanczos for image and choma, I dont have much sub 1080p material though.

(ignore the skip/repeated frames in the screen shot, i'd just skipped ahead and back in the movie)
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Old 12th January 2018, 23:58   #48293  |  Link
huhn
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depends on your settings. so yes maybe or maybe it will take less.
don't add n image using the forum if you want someone else to see this any time soon.
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Old 13th January 2018, 00:26   #48294  |  Link
maiden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
maiden, are you taking the screenshot while paused? We need to see the stats during playback.

QB
yes I was i will do another
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Old 13th January 2018, 00:45   #48295  |  Link
maiden
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madvr settings

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Originally Posted by maiden View Post
yes I was i will do another
new pic playing through remote desktop
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Old 13th January 2018, 00:54   #48296  |  Link
Asmodian
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Remote desktop is not your friend for stable video playback. That said your stats look perfect, no obvious issues. You might try enabling "use Direct3D 11 for presentation".

Also you aren't using f.lux or something similar? Any GPU monitoring software? Try with them off if you are.
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Old 13th January 2018, 01:06   #48297  |  Link
maiden
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Hi and thanks.
use Direct3D 11 for presentation". (will this improve judder)

Not using f.lux on HTPC or any gpu monitoring as long as it is not auto applied.
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Old 13th January 2018, 01:44   #48298  |  Link
mclingo
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ok, something odd going on her for me, my GPU suddenly cant handel NGU sharp, its maxing it out at 90% and i'm getting intermittent black screens, no idea what going on here, my cpu is fine, only running about 10%, this is after a reboot and a reinstalled of MADVR, EVR renderer is fine, just Madvr.
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Old 13th January 2018, 02:10   #48299  |  Link
mclingo
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be interested to know anyone elses AMD GPU stats running madvr

my scaling settings: everything else is default in MADVR apart from I have no trade performance options ticked.

chroma upscale - lanczos
downscale - lanzos
image upscale - NGU sharp medium

GPU= 90%

If I drop downscale to lanczos gpu runs at 45%

I dont really want to max my GPU out like this so I'll have to stay away from NGU, problem is I dont actually know if this has always been like this as a second reboot fixed the black screen and everyting is playing normal now, does anything one 90% is too high for NGU sharp medium on an RX 550?
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Old 13th January 2018, 08:09   #48300  |  Link
psyside
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Well i tried everything, and there is basically 0, not 5% just 0 difference in IQ with quite high settings in madVR MPHC vs VMR 9 Renderless HQ

Here are the screenshots for anyone interested or in doubt

1



2
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