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Old 24th December 2016, 11:24   #41701  |  Link
Oguignant
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Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
A Blu-ray player will typically output YCbCr (directly from the decoded video stream) over HDMI. The TV does the YCbCr → RGB conversion.

Internally, a PC GPU works in RGB only. A PC will typically output RGB over HDMI. The TV just passes its through (hopefully) untouched.

If you enable YCbCr output in your GPU driver settings, the GPU will output YCbCr over HDMI. But internally, it still works in RGB. So what's going to happen is that the GPU will internally convert RGB to YCbCr, then send it over HDMI, then the TV will convert YCbCr back to RGB. The double conversion is pointless, and is likely to degrade quality (especially if there's chroma subsampling going on, or the PC and the TV disagree about which matrix to use).

Putting it all together, here's what happens when using madVR:

GPU driver configured to output RGB: LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (RGB) → TV (RGB)

GPU driver configured to output YCbCr: LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (converts from RGB to YCbCr) → TV (converts from YCbCr to RGB)

Hopefully you can see now that the second configuration doesn't make a ton of sense!
Yes! Now it is perfectly clear. Now I understand, the result is always RGB.

last question. When the video is 10 bits, in fullscreen exclusive mode, how does it convert? Rgb 8 bits?
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Old 24th December 2016, 14:11   #41702  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post

Putting it all together, here's what happens when using madVR:

GPU driver configured to output RGB: LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (RGB) → TV (RGB)

GPU driver configured to output YCbCr: LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (converts from RGB to YCbCr) → TV (converts from YCbCr to RGB)

Hopefully you can see now that the second configuration doesn't make a ton of sense!
Most TV do RGB->YCbCr conversion so in the end:


GPU driver configured to output RGB: LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (RGB) → TV (converts from RGB to YCbCr) → TV (converts from YCbCr to RGB)

Only with PC Mode yo can avoid that conversion, but not always.

In the end, with most TV, you can only choose where RGB->YCbCr conversion is done, through GPU or TV.
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Old 24th December 2016, 14:22   #41703  |  Link
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Most TV do RGB->YCbCr conversion so in the end:


GPU driver configured to output RGB: LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (RGB) → TV (converts from RGB to YCbCr) → TV (converts from YCbCr to RGB)

Only with PC Mode yo can avoid that conversion, but not always.

In the end, with most TV, you can only choose where RGB->YCbCr conversion is done, through GPU or TV.
But I think the best option is to use rgb and avoid multiple conversions.

LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (RGB) → TV (RGB)

What is PC Mode?
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Old 24th December 2016, 14:40   #41704  |  Link
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But I think the best option is to use rgb and avoid multiple conversions.

LAV decoder output (YCbCr) → madVR (converts from YCbCr to RGB) → HDMI output (RGB) → TV (RGB)

What is PC Mode?
PC mode is a special mode on some TVs which turns off many of it's processing 'features'. On my LG plasma for example, if I name the HDMI input as 'PC', almost all of the 'fluff' like dynamic contrast etc is greyed out.

Unless you put your TV into PC mode, it is almost certainly converting an RGB signal into YCbCr (and probably 4:2:2 or maybe worse, 4:2:0) to do all it's processing, and then converting again to RGB for final display.

In PC mode, you may or may not avoid this conversion process - to use my TV as an example again, in PC mode, all of the stuff I don't use anyway is greyed out, leaving only the basic controls and the CMS, but I have no idea whether it's bypassing this RGB-YCbCr-RGB process, all I know for sure is in PC mode it passes the 4:4:4 test (if not in PC mode, it shows 4:2:2, a clear indicator that it's converting an RGB signal into YCbCr).

Last edited by iSeries; 24th December 2016 at 14:44.
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Old 24th December 2016, 15:40   #41705  |  Link
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@David and iSeries

You two know and talk too much!
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Old 24th December 2016, 15:53   #41706  |  Link
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Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
PC mode is a special mode on some TVs which turns off many of it's processing 'features'. On my LG plasma for example, if I name the HDMI input as 'PC', almost all of the 'fluff' like dynamic contrast etc is greyed out.

Unless you put your TV into PC mode, it is almost certainly converting an RGB signal into YCbCr (and probably 4:2:2 or maybe worse, 4:2:0) to do all it's processing, and then converting again to RGB for final display.

In PC mode, you may or may not avoid this conversion process - to use my TV as an example again, in PC mode, all of the stuff I don't use anyway is greyed out, leaving only the basic controls and the CMS, but I have no idea whether it's bypassing this RGB-YCbCr-RGB process, all I know for sure is in PC mode it passes the 4:4:4 test (if not in PC mode, it shows 4:2:2, a clear indicator that it's converting an RGB signal into YCbCr).
My tv is lg 65ef9500 and has pc mode option. (Disable options like trumotion, noise reduction, mpeg noise reduction, etc). I use PC mode + UHD Deep Color for 4k 60mhz.
I did the 444 test and I passed it. And without PC mode (only HDMI) I also did the 444 test and passed it too...



You say that the RGB signal arrives at the TV and then the TV converts it to yCbCr again? I'm already very confused again ...
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Last edited by Oguignant; 24th December 2016 at 16:01.
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Old 24th December 2016, 15:54   #41707  |  Link
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@David and iSeries

You two know and talk too much!
jajaja
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Old 24th December 2016, 16:03   #41708  |  Link
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My tv is lg 65ef9500 and has pc mode option. (Disable options like trumotion, noise reduction, mpeg noise reduction, etc). I use PC mode + UHD Deep Color for 4k 60mhz.
I did the 444 test and I passed it. And without PC mode (only HDMI) I also did the 444 test and passed it too...



You say that the RGB signal arrives at the TV and then the TV converts it to yCbCr again? I'm already very confused again ...
If options like trumotion etc are selectable, it is almost certainly converting RGB to YCbCr for processing. You are lucky enough though that your TV does this in 4:4:4. Either way though, even though a completely RGB chain is theoretically better, you may not even see a difference at a normal viewing distance with normal material (eg as bluray is 8 bit 4:2:0 YCbCr to begin with).

Last edited by iSeries; 24th December 2016 at 16:09.
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Old 24th December 2016, 16:09   #41709  |  Link
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If options like trumotion etc are selectable, it is almost certainly converting RGB to YCbCr for processing.
PC mode turns off all image processing options on my TV. I think it shows the RGB signal without re-processing it. Is there any way to know?
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Old 24th December 2016, 16:46   #41710  |  Link
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there is a simple answer to that your screen isn't RGB so no.
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Old 24th December 2016, 16:53   #41711  |  Link
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there is a simple answer to that your screen isn't RGB so no.
Excuse my ignorance ... you say my tv screen is not rgb?
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:00   #41712  |  Link
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PC mode turns off all image processing options on my TV. I think it shows the RGB signal without re-processing it. Is there any way to know?
You may find that in PC mode you are stuck with 60hz, and in any other refresh rate (like 23/24hz), the TV comes out of PC mode. It's really easy to get lost in the pursuit of absolute perfection though. What is subjective, what is objective, and what is plain placebo will always be up for debate, especially in this thread. Just try to spend some time actually enjoying some movies ��
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:13   #41713  |  Link
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You may find that in PC mode you are stuck with 60hz, and in any other refresh rate (like 23/24hz), the TV comes out of PC mode. It's really easy to get lost in the pursuit of absolute perfection though. What is subjective, what is objective, and what is plain placebo will always be up for debate, especially in this thread. Just try to spend some time actually enjoying some movies ��
With PC mode let me select several refresh types in RGB or yCbCr444.



I just want to know how to configure the HDMI options on the NV card. RGB or yCbCr444... I want to know which one is right.
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:23   #41714  |  Link
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With PC mode let me select several refresh types in RGB or yCbCr444.



I just want to know how to configure the HDMI options on the NV card. RGB or yCbCr444... I want to know which one is right.
Easy - RGB. And of course you can choose any supported refresh rate while in PC mode. The way to test it is put the TV in 60hz PC mode. Then in NV panel change to 23hz. Go into the TV settings and see if the stuff that gets greyed out in PC mode is now selectable.
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:25   #41715  |  Link
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Excuse my ignorance ... you say my tv screen is not rgb?
OLED is WRGB.

you can't display an RGB image without processing on an LG OLED it is impossible.
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:30   #41716  |  Link
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OLED is WRGB.

you can't display an RGB image without processing on an LG OLED it is impossible.
65ef9500 is RGBA...
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:35   #41717  |  Link
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Easy - RGB. And of course you can choose any supported refresh rate while in PC mode. The way to test it is put the TV in 60hz PC mode. Then in NV panel change to 23hz. Go into the TV settings and see if the stuff that gets greyed out in PC mode is now selectable.
23, 24, 25, 29mhz..etc The options are the same as in 60mhz.
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:36   #41718  |  Link
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it is WRGB RGBW or what ever you like more. that'S how LG oled work they have 4 sub pixel not 3 and one of them is white.

RGBA is RGB ALPHA. i'm pretty sure there is no screen with an alpha channel on the panel.
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:40   #41719  |  Link
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it is WRGB RGBW or what ever you like more. that'S how LG oled work they have 4 sub pixel not 3 and one of them is white.

RGBA is RGB ALPHA. i'm pretty sure there is no screen with an alpha channel on the panel.

In this review I read that it is RGBA ... http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/ef9500
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Old 24th December 2016, 17:48   #41720  |  Link
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it is WRGB.
http://www.displayspecifications.com...rison/dfce482b
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