Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 Doom9's Forum BD Rebuilder Beta - Bug Reports Only
 User Name Remember Me? Password
 Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
8th July 2020, 00:24   #29601  |  Link
MrVideo
Registered User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,694
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jdobbs I am my revision control software.

 8th July 2020, 13:56 #29602  |  Link Mike-uk Registered User   Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Dorset Posts: 128 Nvidia 3xx series rumoured to be released in aug, wonder if they have improved NVenc, and x266 being developed ohhhh its like xmas
8th July 2020, 14:46   #29603  |  Link
Mark_Venture
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 198
Quote:
 Originally Posted by cartman0208 ... And the best part ... it doesn't seem to matter which turing chip ... i tried with Mike's settings and got around 61 fps on my 1660ti, while the card costs about half Maybe a Titan would make a difference ... but people could buy a decent car in that price range
So are you saying that as long as its card with a Turing chip, the Cuda cores, clock, etc. doesn't really impact the FPS much when using NVEncC? They're all about the same?

8th July 2020, 20:42   #29604  |  Link
cartman0208
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 122
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark_Venture So are you saying that as long as its card with a Turing chip, the Cuda cores, clock, etc. doesn't really impact the FPS much when using NVEncC? They're all about the same?
I was wondering, too ...
But i used the same settings as Mike-uk, only a different source (with the same dimensions)
I could try different sources, but my experience so far was an almost unnoticable FPS change, even when changing presets.
We need someone with RTX 2060 / 2080 to verify

8th July 2020, 21:20   #29605  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,626
Quote:
 Originally Posted by cartman0208 I was wondering, too ... But i used the same settings as Mike-uk, only a different source (with the same dimensions) I could try different sources, but my experience so far was an almost unnoticable FPS change, even when changing presets. We need someone with RTX 2060 / 2080 to verify
I'm seeing quite a bit of difference between presets when running against the same source. The "performance" preset, for example, is running much faster than "default" or "quality". It can also change based on whether I am using --vbr or --vbrhq.

For example, on a specific UHD source I'm using for testing with preset "performance" and "--vbr" I am getting 127.49 fps -- the same source with "quality" and "--vbrhq" it is doing 77.67 fps (with an otherwise identical command line).

I am also seeing fluctuations depending upon the size (on disc) of the source. An imported 10GB source M2TS encodes faster than a full 60GB untouched source.

The largest factor to speed I've seen (as you might expect) is whether I am using --avs as the input type as opposed to --avhw or --avsw.
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 8th July 2020 at 21:36.

 8th July 2020, 23:14 #29606  |  Link cartman0208 Registered User   Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 122 Ok, I didn't do extended tests ... only constant QP on a small source file ... I wanted to check out resulting file sizes
9th July 2020, 17:22   #29607  |  Link
Mark_Venture
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 198
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jdobbs I'm seeing quite a bit of difference between presets when running against the same source. The "performance" preset, for example, is running much faster than "default" or "quality". It can also change based on whether I am using --vbr or --vbrhq. For example, on a specific UHD source I'm using for testing with preset "performance" and "--vbr" I am getting 127.49 fps -- the same source with "quality" and "--vbrhq" it is doing 77.67 fps (with an otherwise identical command line). I am also seeing fluctuations depending upon the size (on disc) of the source. An imported 10GB source M2TS encodes faster than a full 60GB untouched source. The largest factor to speed I've seen (as you might expect) is whether I am using --avs as the input type as opposed to --avhw or --avsw.
you mention different presets. I was wondering about using the same source, with the same preset, across different cards.

cartman0208 indicated using the same command line that Mike-uk posted, resulted in similar FPS using different video cards (GTX1660ti vs RTX 2070 Super) based on their posts. And using the same string Mike-uk posted on a UHD rip on my PC also came out with the same FPS (using GTX1660ti here).

When all is said and done, it will be interesting to compare results if we could each run tests on our respective systems using the SAME pre-sets and (if possible) the same source.

9th July 2020, 23:38   #29608  |  Link
gonca
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,014
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark_Venture you mention different presets. I was wondering about using the same source, with the same preset, across different cards. cartman0208 indicated using the same command line that Mike-uk posted, resulted in similar FPS using different video cards (GTX1660ti vs RTX 2070 Super) based on their posts. And using the same string Mike-uk posted on a UHD rip on my PC also came out with the same FPS (using GTX1660ti here). When all is said and done, it will be interesting to compare results if we could each run tests on our respective systems using the SAME pre-sets and (if possible) the same source.
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...67#post1917767

 10th July 2020, 06:19 #29609  |  Link deadfrog Registered User   Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3 rtx2060 I just downloaded NVEncC 5.09 64 bit. I have a Ryzen 3900 with 128gb ram and a RTX2060. If someone could give me the command line they would like tested I can run it against Avengers endgame and see what kind of frames/sec I get.
10th July 2020, 12:07   #29610  |  Link
Mike-uk
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Dorset
Posts: 128
Quote:
 Originally Posted by deadfrog I just downloaded NVEncC 5.09 64 bit. I have a Ryzen 3900 with 128gb ram and a RTX2060. If someone could give me the command line they would like tested I can run it against Avengers endgame and see what kind of frames/sec I get.
--avhw --vpp-pad 0,276,0,278 -i F:\Movies\uhd2019\BDMV\STREAM\00014.m2ts --codec hevc --preset quality --profile main10 --output-depth 10 --repeat-headers --chromaloc 2 --colorprim bt2020 --transfer smpte2084 --colormatrix bt2020nc --master-display G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1) --qp-min 0 --vbrhq 0 --vbr-quality 25 --sar 1:1 --aud --pic-struct --vbv-bufsize 45000 --max-bitrate 48000 --gop-len 24 --slices 4 -o "D:\test\VID_00000.hevc

10th July 2020, 18:17   #29611  |  Link
cartman0208
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 122
I had to do some small corrections to make it work (with powershell):
Quote:
 "C:\path\to\nvenc\nvencc64.exe" --avhw --vpp-pad 0,276,0,278 -i "X:\path\to\input.file" --codec hevc --preset quality --profile main10 --output-depth 10 --repeat-headers --chromaloc 2 --colorprim bt2020 --transfer smpte2084 --colormatrix bt2020nc --master-display "G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1)" --qp-min 0 --vbrhq 0 --vbr-quality 25 --sar 1:1 --aud --pic-struct --vbv-bufsize 45000 --max-bitrate 48000 --gop-len 24 --slices 4 -o "X:\path\to\output.file"
Also I coudn't make out any difference in encoding speed between 32bit and 64bit version.

10th July 2020, 22:12   #29612  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,626
Quote:
 Originally Posted by cartman0208 Also I coudn't make out any difference in encoding speed between 32bit and 64bit version.
I also see no difference in speed between 32 bit and 64 bit. That makes sense, since the actual encoding is being done by hardware anyway.

The one thing I did notice is that (like x264 and x265) you can't use the 64 bit version with a standard (not "+" version) of AVISYNTH. So in BD-Rebuilder I will only be including the 32 bit version of NCEncc in the TOOLS folder.

I have NVENCC working reliably within BD Rebuilder. I'm now working on the function of sizing predictions for constant quality mode (CQM). Since prediction (X264/x265 CRF) never really worked well with HEVC sources in the past, I'm also fixing that in the prediction algorithm. There are a few other minor support functions that will have to be adjusted as well.

All-in-all I'm pretty pleased with what I'm seeing (especially for UHD sources). The only real disadvantage of NVENC is the lack of a true 2-pass mode. But I don't think that's ever likely with a HW encoder.
Quote:
 "C:\path\to\nvenc\nvencc64.exe" --avhw --vpp-pad 0,276,0,278 -i "X:\path\to\input.file" --codec hevc --preset quality --profile main10 --output-depth 10 --repeat-headers --chromaloc 2 --colorprim bt2020 --transfer smpte2084 --colormatrix bt2020nc --master-display "G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1)" --qp-min 0 --vbrhq 0 --vbr-quality 25 --sar 1:1 --aud --pic-struct --vbv-bufsize 45000 --max-bitrate 48000 --gop-len 24 --slices 4 -o "X:\path\to\output.file"
By the way, the only reason "--vpp-pad 0,276,0,278" was a part of that command line is because the file I was using was imported from an MKV and the black padding had been removed in the original MKV file. So, during import, BD-RB sensed the sizing irregularity and inserted the necessary padding to make it UHD-BD compliant. Some of the other portions of the command line (e.g. --master-display) can also be specific to a source (UHD-BD keeps track of it, and BD-RB pulls the information to make sure the reencode matches). With recent changes to NVENCC you would also want to add the "--repeat-headers" parameter to it if the output is targeted at a UHD-BD disc.
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 10th July 2020 at 22:41.

11th July 2020, 14:18   #29613  |  Link
Mike-uk
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Dorset
Posts: 128
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jdobbs The only real disadvantage of NVENC is the lack of a true 2-pass mode. But I don't think that's ever likely with a HW encoder.
can you not do a CPU true first pass ??
ou can do 2-pass in a few popular encoding programs, but the .stats file that is created is blank. The only way I've found to actually get a true 2-Pass is to run the first pass on the CPU, save the stats file and then use that during a second pass using NVENC which is a cumbersome process. Every other way I've encountered is no different than a 1-pass encode.

Last edited by Mike-uk; 11th July 2020 at 14:22.

11th July 2020, 22:14   #29614  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,626
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mike-uk can you not do a CPU true first pass ?? ou can do 2-pass in a few popular encoding programs, but the .stats file that is created is blank. The only way I've found to actually get a true 2-Pass is to run the first pass on the CPU, save the stats file and then use that during a second pass using NVENC which is a cumbersome process. Every other way I've encountered is no different than a 1-pass encode.
How can you get NVENC to read a stats file? I must have missed that parameter.

But, even if it could, running the first pass on the CPU kinda' defeats the purpose (speed) of NVENCC.

Right now all NVENCC can do is a 2-pass within a short range of frames... which isn't really a 2 pass. Honestly, though, I'm pretty satisfied with the output quality of 1 pass anyhow, and the CQM output looks really good.
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 11th July 2020 at 22:18.

 12th July 2020, 09:39 #29615  |  Link cartman0208 Registered User   Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 122 How do you make sure, you hit the requested target size? I imagine thats pretty hard with CQM ...
12th July 2020, 10:47   #29616  |  Link
Sharc
Registered User

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,711
Quote:
 Originally Posted by cartman0208 How do you make sure, you hit the requested target size? I imagine thats pretty hard with CQM ...
Possibly using the same (or similar) prediction algorithm which has been available since long for CPU based x264 CRF encodes?

12th July 2020, 16:04   #29617  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,626
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sharc Possibly using the same (or similar) prediction algorithm which has been available since long for CPU based x264 CRF encodes?
Yeah. I built a prediction algorithm for BD Rebuilder so it could do targeted sizing using CRF in X264/X265. So for NVENC, I just had to do a large group of sample encodes in order to build its prediction tables.

I've done several tests and it seems to be working well enough. I also modified the way in which HEVC sources are sampled -- AVISYNTH's SelectRangeEvery() was getting terrible picture glitches with hevc, and I couldn't use if for UHD-BD anyway, because it didn't support HDR.
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 12th July 2020 at 16:08.

12th July 2020, 21:09   #29618  |  Link
cartman0208
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 122
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jdobbs Yeah. I built a prediction algorithm for BD Rebuilder so it could do targeted sizing using CRF in X264/X265. So for NVENC, I just had to do a large group of sample encodes in order to build its prediction tables.
You mean like: take a sample of 24 frames from every minute of the movie ?

Oh, and what I just noticed ... is BD-RB cabable of HDR10+ ?
(sorry if that topic came up already)
because MediaInfo shows me on very few movies
Quote:
 HDR format : SMPTE ST 2094 App 4, Version 1, HDR10+ Profile A compatible
and after the BD-RB conversion:
Quote:
 HDR format : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Or did I miss a secret switch?

12th July 2020, 21:49   #29619  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,626
Quote:
 Originally Posted by cartman0208 You mean like: take a sample of 24 frames from every minute of the movie ? Oh, and what I just noticed ... is BD-RB cabable of HDR10+ ? (sorry if that topic came up already) because MediaInfo shows me on very few movies and after the BD-RB conversion: Or did I miss a secret switch?
The AVISYNTH sampling is configurable. See HIDDENOPTS.TXT:
Code:
SAMPLE_GROUP=n		n = Number of frames in each sample group for CRF estimation
SAMPLE_SIZE=n		n = Number of frames in each sample for CRF estimation (size/group = sample percentage)
The default values change depending upon on source framerates. But typically they are a 1% sample (e.g. 24fps uses a 48 frame sample [SAMPLE_SIZE] for every 4800 frames [SAMPLE_GROUP]).

On an HEVC source (in the upcoming version) a sample M2TS is created which consists of a 1% sample across multiple locations within the source.

BD-RB supports HDR10 and Dolby Vision. I don't think I've looked at HDR10+ yet (it's been a while), but frankly I am skeptical of all of these "extensions" to HDR10 as I think they are getting ridiculous and may in the same category as "HD Audio" (which is nothing beyond a marketing gimmick that has been proven scientifically as nonsense). Of course that comment will likely result in responses from people with "magic ears" who will say how they can tell the difference (even though what they actually hear is increased baseline volume that the marketeers have implemented in HD audio to try and make it appear as if there is an actual difference). Double blind tests show that (other than the additional channels available available in HD formats) Dolby Digital 5.1 at 640Kbs is indistinguishable from an lossless original audio source. Okay, time to step down off my soapbox.

I suppose I will have to look at HDR10+ just to keep the wolves at bay. But my guess is it will soon be replaced by HDR10++ or HDR10+ super-duper-excellent or some such thing. Marketeers have no boundaries (or ethics).
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 12th July 2020 at 22:20.

 13th July 2020, 08:08 #29620  |  Link cartman0208 Registered User   Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 122 thanks for the description. From my limited knowlege ... HDR10+, almost like DolbyVision, adds dynamic metadata to adjust brightness scene-by-scene, while HDR10 only uses static metadata

 Thread Tools Search this Thread Search this Thread: Advanced Search Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Rules
 Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Announcements and Chat     General Discussion     News     Forum / Site Suggestions & Help General     Decrypting     Newbies     DVD2AVI / DGIndex     Audio encoding     Subtitles     Linux, Mac OS X, & Co Capturing and Editing Video     Avisynth Usage     Avisynth Development     VapourSynth     Capturing Video     DV     HDTV / DVB / TiVo     NLE - Non Linear Editing     VirtualDub, VDubMod & AviDemux     New and alternative a/v containers Video Encoding     (Auto) Gordian Knot     MPEG-4 ASP     MPEG-4 Encoder GUIs     MPEG-4 AVC / H.264     High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC)     New and alternative video codecs     MPEG-2 Encoding     VP9 and AV1 (HD) DVD, Blu-ray & (S)VCD     One click suites for DVD backup and DVD creation     DVD & BD Rebuilder     (HD) DVD & Blu-ray authoring     Advanced authoring     IFO/VOB Editors     DVD burning Hardware & Software     Software players     Hardware players     PC Hard & Software Programming and Hacking     Development     Translations

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:53.

 Doom9.org - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.