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Old 20th September 2019, 17:02   #57441  |  Link
Klaus1189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i switch from PCIe 3.0 ddr3 1600 mhz to PCIe 4.0 ddr4 3200 mhz and i got worse results for copyback.
What DDR3 and DDR4 RAM modules did you compare?
Exact model number for tech specs. I want to compare on paper.
What mainboard did you use for each system?
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Old 20th September 2019, 17:13   #57442  |  Link
huhn
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wow wow chill.
it's an freaking zen 2 with broken navi card and the test was with agesa 1.0.0.3a. come back in a couple of month when they ironed the bugs out.

i mean the newest driver update manage to stop BSOD when playing hardware decoded videos and the driver is now only dying they are making huge steps forward!

i don't even have the card build in anymore.
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Old 20th September 2019, 17:25   #57443  |  Link
nevcairiel
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The problem with CopyBack is also that it has to copy the image twice, once from the GPU to the system, and then back from the system to the GPU. On some GPUs, the download step is also rather slow (AMD used to historically have trouble there, no clue how recent hardware changed). But it can also stress the system RAM, especially on dual-channel memory mainstream systems.

I did a quick test on my system (which isn't a good example, since it has fast quad-channel RAM and everything else high-end as well, but regardless) with a random 4K 10-bit test clip I had at hand:
With DXVAChecker and naive EVR playback testing

DXVA2-Native, ~380 FPS
DXVA2-CopyBack, ~104 FPS
Software Decoding, ~196 FPS

The native test is close to what the hardware decoder can achieve, it was at ~95% usage most of the time. CopyBack definitely takes quite a toll on 4K. Interestingly on 1080p the overhead from CopyBack is generally extremely minimal.
Interesting is also software decoding. Granted you need a CPU that can actually decode this fast, and it was decode-limited at this point, but uploading the image alone is not bottlenecking the decoder yet.

Since I could upload at 196 fps at least (and probably more), I did another test, DXVA2-CopyBack, Decode only - which means it'll only download the image from the GPU, but not re-upload it. That yielded ~232 FPS.
Clearly the doubled use from download and upload creates the real bottleneck ... somewhere. Its not entirely clear where the real bottleneck is. Clearly the software upload path in the renderer can handle more then ~104 FPS. Clearly the download path in LAV Video can as well. PCIe is full-duplex, which means it should be capable of sending and receiving at the same time. System Memory is more complex in regards to that... but my quad-channel memory should have plenty bandwidth to accomodate this here.

What I don't know is if the EVR used in this example uses a different thread for uploading the video, or if its on the same thread as LAV Video uses to deliver the image - which might explain why its slowing down so much, since it does two things on the same thread. madVR, at least, uses a seperate thread for uploading, so it wouldn't be affected by that.
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Old 20th September 2019, 19:39   #57444  |  Link
Crimson Wolf
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Like Oblivion?
Just FYI: Oblivion is fake 4k (mastered in 2K or 1080p then upscaled)
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Old 20th September 2019, 20:54   #57445  |  Link
huhn
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we can keep going on with copyback issues here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176642
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Old 21st September 2019, 01:24   #57446  |  Link
seiyafan
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In the hardware device option for copyback, is there any difference between the GPU card and the iGPU in the Intel processor?
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Old 21st September 2019, 07:07   #57447  |  Link
littleD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The problem with CopyBack is also that it has to copy the image twice, once from the GPU to the system, and then back from the system to the GPU. On some GPUs, the download step is also rather slow (AMD used to historically have trouble there, no clue how recent hardware changed). But it can also stress the system RAM, especially on dual-channel memory mainstream systems.

I did a quick test on my system (which isn't a good example, since it has fast quad-channel RAM and everything else high-end as well, but regardless) with a random 4K 10-bit test clip I had at hand:
With DXVAChecker and naive EVR playback testing

DXVA2-Native, ~380 FPS
DXVA2-CopyBack, ~104 FPS
Software Decoding, ~196 FPS

The native test is close to what the hardware decoder can achieve, it was at ~95% usage most of the time. CopyBack definitely takes quite a toll on 4K. Interestingly on 1080p the overhead from CopyBack is generally extremely minimal.
Interesting is also software decoding. Granted you need a CPU that can actually decode this fast, and it was decode-limited at this point, but uploading the image alone is not bottlenecking the decoder yet.

Since I could upload at 196 fps at least (and probably more), I did another test, DXVA2-CopyBack, Decode only - which means it'll only download the image from the GPU, but not re-upload it. That yielded ~232 FPS.
Clearly the doubled use from download and upload creates the real bottleneck ... somewhere. Its not entirely clear where the real bottleneck is. Clearly the software upload path in the renderer can handle more then ~104 FPS. Clearly the download path in LAV Video can as well. PCIe is full-duplex, which means it should be capable of sending and receiving at the same time. System Memory is more complex in regards to that... but my quad-channel memory should have plenty bandwidth to accomodate this here.

What I don't know is if the EVR used in this example uses a different thread for uploading the video, or if its on the same thread as LAV Video uses to deliver the image - which might explain why its slowing down so much, since it does two things on the same thread. madVR, at least, uses a seperate thread for uploading, so it wouldn't be affected by that.
Not sure if i add something new, but computers since like forever were designed with the data flow in one direction. To make pc games reach high fps rates, it means the pc system should have fast cpu>gpu memory transfer. Backward direction was always few times slower because there were no applications needing that. That fact starts matter in GPGPU times, even before Opencl, because general processing need to reupload data many times. Since then - the path gpu>cpu have been steadily improved but still is slower.
Ram speed has no much impact in cpu>gpu transfer since thats native for pc architecture. Upload to gpu, decode (texture/image) and render is typical for pc game. Quad channel might have advantage in software decoding whith many cpu<>ram memory transfers. So ram speed might matter in software decoding.
In Your example, alone downloading image (decode only) looks fast anyhow. Reuploading (playback) is contrary to PC design, even with fast RAM, slow speed may be hardware or software limitation (dxva design?). There are some small tools to benchmark PCIE gpu>cpu transfer.
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Old 21st September 2019, 16:27   #57448  |  Link
TechnoPeasant
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Has the latest Windows 10 update screwed the levels for anyone? I haven't touched my madVR setup in ages, the only thing that's changed is Windows 10, and now my levels are screwed and everything looks washed out.
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Old 21st September 2019, 16:39   #57449  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
In the hardware device option for copyback, is there any difference between the GPU card and the iGPU in the Intel processor?
It depends on the video decode capabilities of your iGPU and dGPU. Use the one with the broadest format support. For example you could have a modern Intel CPU that could decode HEVC and VP9 but an older - even if powerful for madVR - dGPU that cannot, or the opposite.
You can check the capabilities of each with this tool: http://bluesky23.yukishigure.com/en/DXVAChecker.html

If both GPUs have the same format support, it's best to do some playback tests comparing the CPU/GPU load with each.
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Old 24th September 2019, 09:23   #57450  |  Link
cca310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Anybody interested in an XySubFilter bugfix for external SRT subtitles with italic text in them?

http://madshi.net/XySubFilter746SrtFix.zip

This is not tested well, and it's a totally unofficial build, so please use on your own risk. If you do decide to give it a try, let me know if the "move subtitles" option now works properly in all situations.

I've asked cyberbeing to create a new official XySubFilter build with my fix, but it'd be great if some users would test it first.
I am not too familiar with github, but would this mean that your fix was added to the official xysubfilter? https://github.com/Cyberbeing/xy-VSF...c58c698c7df4af
It says that is fixed external subtitles, but not embedded?

I still have embedded subtitles covering my video with XySubFilter 3.1.0.752. If I install your "XySubFilter746SrtFix", embedded subtitles with italics are below the video correctly.

I believe the issue is not fixed for embedded subtitles.
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Old 24th September 2019, 14:59   #57451  |  Link
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Has the latest Windows 10 update screwed the levels for anyone? I haven't touched my madVR setup in ages, the only thing that's changed is Windows 10, and now my levels are screwed and everything looks washed out.
So I had originally thought this was from a Windows 10 update, but the more research I do, I think I've found an update to my TV somehow broke compatibility with MadVR HDR10 passthrough. I own a Vizio PQ65 and noticed many other people having similar issues with playback from external devices, such as apps on their Xbox One.

In any case, if anyone happens to have run into the same issue, I was able to work around this by using Windows 10 HDR instead of nVidia. I did this by changing my nVidia driver settings to 23Hz, YcBr 4:4:4, 12bit and turned on Windows 10 HDR. From everything I've read, this is far from ideal, but it works for now. Hopefully Vizio will fix things.

If anyone has suggestions as to what driver settings to use in conjunction with Windows 10 HDR, please let me know. It's possible I should be using RGB Full, like I was previously, but I wasn't sure. Thanks!
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Old 25th September 2019, 12:49   #57452  |  Link
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are you sure your setup it right, i'd double check, sounds like you've got the wrong colour space set somewhere, i'd check your setup again. Go for Full RGB 4:4:4 on your graphics card, set MADVR to 10bit and 0-255 - your TV black level should be on HIGH or whatever the equivalent is for this setting.

Now play the black clipping pattern with something like MPC-BE with MADVR set as renderer but also remember to set full screen, does that look normal, crushed or washed out?
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Old 25th September 2019, 20:31   #57453  |  Link
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are you sure your setup it right, i'd double check, sounds like you've got the wrong colour space set somewhere, i'd check your setup again. Go for Full RGB 4:4:4 on your graphics card, set MADVR to 10bit and 0-255 - your TV black level should be on HIGH or whatever the equivalent is for this setting.

Now play the black clipping pattern with something like MPC-BE with MADVR set as renderer but also remember to set full screen, does that look normal, crushed or washed out?
What I think is happening, is that the TV isn't choosing the correct color space when in HDR10 mode + RGB in the nvidia driver, and I can't select the color space in the TV manually. I also have no known way to set the black level either, Vizio PQ sets look good, but their user controls are kind of crap.
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Old 25th September 2019, 20:45   #57454  |  Link
mclingo
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2018 tvs seem to have this, https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vi...-2018/settings
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Old 25th September 2019, 20:50   #57455  |  Link
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I think their screenshots and what not are out of date. Also, I'm fairly confident it never allowed us to change the color space when in HDR10 mode.
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Old 25th September 2019, 21:14   #57456  |  Link
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Originally Posted by TechnoPeasant View Post
I think their screenshots and what not are out of date. Also, I'm fairly confident it never allowed us to change the color space when in HDR10 mode.
hdr10 is a mode not a picture prest though, you set the colour space oon the picture preset and when HDR is enabled it probably locks it in, I cant change some of my picture settings when HDR is enabled on my lg oled
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Old 26th September 2019, 02:15   #57457  |  Link
TechnoPeasant
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hdr10 is a mode not a picture prest though, you set the colour space oon the picture preset and when HDR is enabled it probably locks it in, I cant change some of my picture settings when HDR is enabled on my lg oled
I gave this a shot, under the preset I use for everything, I changed to RGB, played a HDR file, the TV switches to HDR mode and gets all washed out.

This was all working for a long time, aside from the TV or receiver updating, I’m not sure what else changed. Frustrating.
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Old 26th September 2019, 02:40   #57458  |  Link
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Originally Posted by TechnoPeasant View Post
I gave this a shot, under the preset I use for everything, I changed to RGB, played a HDR file, the TV switches to HDR mode and gets all washed out.
It sounds like it stays in limited range but the TV uses full range, did you make sure you changed to full range RGB?
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Old 26th September 2019, 02:53   #57459  |  Link
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It sounds like it stays in limited range but the TV uses full range, did you make sure you changed to full range RGB?
Unfortunately, the Vizio PQ doesn't seem to offer a setting for video levels, just color space. Kinda sucks.
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Old 26th September 2019, 04:50   #57460  |  Link
wushantao
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i want to upgrade my graphics card

now i use sony 900f,maybe I will buy another 950g

rx590,rx5700,rtx2060,which one is better for madvr only?
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