Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 18th November 2020, 21:40   #60721  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
Impressing! What about dxva2-copyback?
Not a significant change, perhaps 0.5 ms slower for average rendering times with 4K HDR.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2020, 21:41   #60722  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
wow finally a user that get's the "same" as my i3.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2020, 09:09   #60723  |  Link
zind1703
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 72
Control vs DLSS 2.0: Can 540p Match 1080p Image Quality?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIKzRhYZm4&t=309s

Why does it not work in movies ?
Is it possible to open it in a driver ?
zind1703 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2020, 14:21   #60724  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
Isn't that how NGU Sharp works?
The difference being DLSS uses the dedicated tensor cores to do it, and NGU Sharp doesn't have those artifacts on edges seen in that video (I don't know if it comes from the use of lower precision tensor cores, of from NGU using much more processing power to do the work, probably a bit of both).
There are users of madVR that force doubling using NGU Sharp then use a sharp downscaler even when displaying at the same definition as the source video, to achieve sharpening.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2020, 15:54   #60725  |  Link
SirMaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
Control vs DLSS 2.0: Can 540p Match 1080p Image Quality?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIKzRhYZm4&t=309s

Why does it not work in movies ?
Is it possible to open it in a driver ?
DLSS needs to be trained on 16K rendered footage from each game that it is added to.

For movies we need a generic solution that is trained on a variety of movies and all that madshi has to feed it was 4K source material.
SirMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2020, 16:35   #60726  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
DLSS needs to be trained on 16K rendered footage from each game that it is added to.
This is no longer true, DLSS 2.0 does not use per-game training anymore.

But either way, DLSS itself is trained for sharp video game footage, not video. We already have neural network based video upscalers though, that concept is not a new one. NNEDI3 is a popular one. And I believe NGU in madVR also uses that concept, and many others.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 19th November 2020 at 16:42.
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2020, 16:36   #60727  |  Link
KoKlusz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 27
DLSS was created for real time rendering, it's useless for video streams.
KoKlusz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2020, 21:18   #60728  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
just look at the images it really bad (in incontrol) the reason people like it is that it is sharper the huge artefacts are just ignored. you could simply run a sharpener that doesn't ring like that and get an better results which may be slower.

madshi has already confirmed that NGU is currently retrained and 16 bit will be used too. and that's done using tensor cores nvidia RTX cards.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2020, 04:55   #60729  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaviowolff View Post
My AOC 24G2 pc monitor specs report 250 nits.. reviewers measured about 300. But it doesn't fit your description, as it's not local dimming. In this case, is it better with standard sdr content?

I know I can just test it and see what I like the most, but I like hearing opinions from the more experienced folks.

Thanks
There are alot of problems with measurements on the internet, is it 300 nit at 6500k , it could be 300 nits at 6800k and alot of monitors ship with default white points at crazy values like 7500k

So, unless you measure and tune it yourself, not knowing is still a problem.

4K hdr content is ALWAYS better than 1080p sdr content.

We're not at the point where producing 4K discs is so cheap that poorly made garbage is getting though.

As for tone mapping, Madvr makes assumptions, and it assumes whatever value you give it. But that value is not truly meaningful unless the monitor is calibrated or profiled (3dlut).

luckily madvr's hdr will still look pretty decent without any of that. The one thing that you might be missing out on is proper 2.2 gamma. The majority of monitors out there have botched gamma curves out of the box.
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2020, 20:28   #60730  |  Link
Scrambler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
No one has the documentation needed to process Dolby Vision. You need to pay a lot of money for the docs to be able to support Dolby Vision, even for a "simple" passthrough.
Thanks. I thought that DV metadata is encoded in a manner of HDR10 metadata (except the case, when there is a separate video stream used to encode luma data), so it can just be passed through, and the monitor will deal with it (my monitor supports DV profile, and I'm able to run it in DV mode in Battlefield 1 and Mass Effect Andromeda, but with DV I have to use DV LL decoder in the form of Dolby Vision Extensions for Movies and TV app on Windows 10, which is not quite convenient).
Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2020, 22:50   #60731  |  Link
DMU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 207
How to activate a saved profile in madVR forcibly?
__________________
R3 3200G / Vega8 / Samsung UE40NU7100
Win11Pro 21H2 / 4K RGB 59Hz / AMD last driver
MPC-HC 1.9.17 / madVR 0.92.17 / FSW / SM / 8bit
DMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2020, 22:54   #60732  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
you can give it a hot key.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2020, 02:14   #60733  |  Link
LordX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 168
Ok, so I am nuts and back at another attempt to pass through HDR to my projector, and see if I can get it set right to where I don't NEED tone mapping.

Running into a 'black crush' wall..

I set my Nvidia to RGB Full, MadVR to Limited, and PJ to limited.

I then selected Pass through HDR to Display, and checked send metadata.

When I have metadata checked, the display automatically converts to HDR (and shows as HDR in the PJ settings). However, my black levels are crushed. When I use the black level video (http://aaa-computerrepair.com/zip/02...k-level-v2.mp4) - I see NONE of the numbers - so totally crushed... (and no wonder I have felt that HDR seems 'dim'!!)

When I switch OFF the 'send metadata' - the projector does NOT show as being in BT.2020 or HDR. I can force the setting to HDR10 in the projector settings (which does look good on the PJ) - but the PJ is still not automatically registering that it is in BT.2020....

Also, regardless of the metadata setting, MadVR shows that it is outputting in DCI-P3 (HDR 1000 nits BT.2020 -> DCI-P3) - why is this? Can I have MadVR output in BT.2020 directly? Maybe that would help my issue?

I am totally confused - any help is greatly appreciated!!!
LordX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2020, 03:01   #60734  |  Link
LordX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 168
Edit:

I have my Nvidia output set to RGB Full 12Bit.

So even though it isn't telling the projector it is HDR, it is still showing D3D11 10bit fullscreen windowed as the output. So it has the 'full' bit depth that it should natively.

Windows still shows output as SDR though when I check the display settings.

Anyway, when I FORCE select HDR10 on my projector - the picture comes alive... it looks GREAT. And I am down to 14ms frame timings since I am not doing all the HDR to SDR processing.

Have I found a 'loophole' for tone mapping? E.g. am I getting 'free' tone mapping through my projector? Or something similar?
LordX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2020, 04:43   #60735  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
no device is able to display 10000 nits so every HDR device has to be to tone map.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2020, 07:32   #60736  |  Link
LordX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 168
I figured out the black level issue - had to set a custom range in MadVR - just bumped the black cut off from 16 to 19 and that seemed to do the trick.
LordX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2020, 14:42   #60737  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 706
How does madvr handle the rec2020 color container primaries, does it retarget them ?
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2020, 17:48   #60738  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
no device is able to display 10000 nits so every HDR device has to be to tone map.
"MadVR shows that it is outputting in DCI-P3 (HDR 1000 nits BT.2020 -> DCI-P3) - why is this?"

1000 nits, not 10,000. For example, my HDR device does 1500+ nits so passthrough is acceptable vs tone mapped imo.

I think the -> DCI-P3 is referring to what the source was mastered in, not what it's outputting which is BT.2020.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2020, 19:07   #60739  |  Link
Alec246
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Guys, I'm having trouble setting my MadVR for 4k60 Videos from Next Gen Games. I watch them on a 1440P monitor using SSIM 1D Downscale.

My 5700 has a special Profile for 4k60, but I'm Getting 19ms and Dropping Frames. Which one should I drop first? "Chroma Upscaling from NGU High Quality to Medium Quality" or "Image Upscaling - Doubling - NGU Anti-Alising Medium"? What is the most important one to be higher? Other suggestions?

Thanks!
Alec246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2020, 19:33   #60740  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
I don't know much about games but as a rule of thumb, 4k doesn't need to be image upscaled because it's already at the highest scale but it could benefit from chroma upscale. So, if you're running out of resources with a 4k video, lower luma. Once you do, you might even be able to raise chroma a bit. Fwiw, on the flip side luma becomes more important than chroma when using lesser resolution video you want upscaled to your native display resolution such as 2160p. I don't know much about 1440p and how gamers flip flop resolutions around though.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.