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Old 17th February 2020, 12:25   #58641  |  Link
zeus0r
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hey there,

i have a pretty weird phenomenon lately... i'm not 100% sure but i think it started with the latest nvidia driver update.

following setup:

- win 10
- gtx 980
- latest mpc-hc / lavfilters / madvr
- philips 55pos901 oled

i've been using this setup for quite some time without any problems but i recently noticed wrong black levels for HDR content while SDR content is fine. (madvr hdr passthrough enabled)

rgb full range (0-255) is enabled in madvr settings and it currently gives me correct black levels for SDR content but i need to change it to 16-235 in order to get correct black levels for HDR content. (otherwise blacks are grey)

i checked this with some black level test files where 0-16 should be black and 17-25 flash.

0-255: correct SDR black levels but greyish blacks for HDR content
16-235: correct HDR black levels but bad black crush for SDR content

could this be a nvidia bug? or is there someting i am missing here?

Last edited by zeus0r; 17th February 2020 at 12:40.
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Old 17th February 2020, 16:53   #58642  |  Link
mclingo
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when you say the colour space is wrong, is it too Dark which is why you have to set it 16-235, and do you set this in MADVR?

Does your TV envoke a seperate preset for HDR, if it does it may have somehow got changed to LOW instead of HIGH where it should be if you running a FULL RGB 444 chain.
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Old 17th February 2020, 17:22   #58643  |  Link
Klaus1189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-uk View Post
exclusive mode "frames shall be presented in advance" set to 1 any higher and I get the stuttering
See also the dedicated driver thread here on doom9
AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version
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Old 18th February 2020, 00:25   #58644  |  Link
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Guys did they recently change how the Highlight recovery works in the new beta versions.

I think i was on build 86 before updating today to 113, and toggling the highlight recovery doesn't seem to do anything now.
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Old 18th February 2020, 21:50   #58645  |  Link
SirMaster
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Guys did they recently change how the Highlight recovery works in the new beta versions.

I think i was on build 86 before updating today to 113, and toggling the highlight recovery doesn't seem to do anything now.
Madshi hasn't mentioned any change to it.

It's working the same for me in 113.
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Old 18th February 2020, 23:25   #58646  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Guys did they recently change how the Highlight recovery works .

it still works very well for me on 113, perfect scene to test it on is harry potter goblet of fire and the end when he's fighting Voldemort, on my 400 nit OLED there is virtually no detail in the ghost faces without using this.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBij8k4...EE_-Q?e=HGjBrV
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Old 19th February 2020, 00:30   #58647  |  Link
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Thanks guys, i rebooted the pc and it seems to be working now.
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Old 19th February 2020, 08:57   #58648  |  Link
madjock
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I guess it is still quite hard to do at the moment, although we are at 113 revision wise.

But it would be nice to have an LCD/OLED section on what settings people are using. I as many probably use Neo-XPs settings.


I know like everything madVR a lot boils down to personal taste, but even at this late stage the settings for HDR are mind boggling and they always have been.

I am still not sure if I prefer HDR to tone mapping, I feel a bit stupid saying that as I should be able to tell, and from what I have read unless you have a really good HDR set which I do not have, the tone mapping will always be better.

@mclingo

Don't think thats 113 mate. this is

https://imgur.com/a/wQjETu3
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Last edited by madjock; 19th February 2020 at 09:23.
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Old 19th February 2020, 11:00   #58649  |  Link
chros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
But it would be nice to have an LCD/OLED section on what settings people are using. I as many probably use Neo-XPs settings.
Here it is (read through all the links in it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
I am still not sure if I prefer HDR to tone mapping
I do, due to this.
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Old 19th February 2020, 11:07   #58650  |  Link
madjock
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Thank you.

I still do not understand as such and for a layman like myself with no calibration equipment and the same in depth knowledge as yourselves I find it all another language.

A lot seems to be based on OLEDs, which is also something I do not have, not 100% what my real NITs is also which does not help.

edit : so do I need to output in HDR format ?
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Last edited by madjock; 19th February 2020 at 11:46.
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Old 19th February 2020, 12:05   #58651  |  Link
huhn
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without measuring you will always be guess.

the idea is pretty simple.
HDR wants more max nits and the higher the max nits are the more useless tone mapping gets(simplified deal with it).
madVR tone mapping should in theory always when when you have the same SDR nits as HDR nits but you can't figure this out without measuring tools and you usually really really don't want to run your screen at such high nits.
if you add output in HDR you are now adding two tone mapping step with can ruin everything.

TL;DR do it by eye if you can't calibrate the screen.
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Old 19th February 2020, 12:17   #58652  |  Link
madjock
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Thanks.

Yes I guess thats true ref calibration, I think in my mind I thought tonemapping is better because at least with SDR you can calibrate it as such, where as HDR is another animal.

So if my max nits is 350, is that what I have to set it at or lower ?

https://www.displayspecifications.co...splay/e0a010c1
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Last edited by madjock; 19th February 2020 at 12:28.
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Old 19th February 2020, 13:05   #58653  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by @mclingo

Don't think thats 113 mate. this is

[url
https://imgur.com/a/wQjETu3[/url]
lol. i sent an old screen shot thats all

I think if people have a high nits OLED then maybe the TV's own tone mapping might be better, my 400 nit OLED definately benefits from madvr's tone mapping, certainly for highlight recovery.

The other issue is that even though there is a lot of HDR stuff out there now, very little has any real pop to take advantage of high nit units i've found. My dad has a q85 and the few things I watched didnt look that much different to me in a dark room.

One thing that did really pop I watched recently was the latest season of the expanse but I saw that on amazon prime so not through MADVR, i've never seen HDR look so good, the pop from the lights and colours were amazing even on my TV, nothing else looks this good on my TV but I think this is more to do with the fact that a lot of HDR movies out there are fake or poorly mastered HDR.

It would be interesting to see how the expanse compares on hdr bluray via MADVR to amazon prime, this is something i'm eager to test.
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Old 19th February 2020, 13:10   #58654  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Thanks.

Yes I guess thats true ref calibration, I think in my mind I thought tonemapping is better because at least with SDR you can calibrate it as such, where as HDR is another animal.

So if my max nits is 350, is that what I have to set it at or lower ?

https://www.displayspecifications.co...splay/e0a010c1
if you pump the backlight and the brightness to max maybe.
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Old 19th February 2020, 14:35   #58655  |  Link
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@madjock your supposedly v113 screenshot isn't. mclingo's is indeed 113. (shame madshi's not including the test build number in the GUI)
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if you add output in HDR you are now adding two tone mapping step with can ruin everything.
Depends on the display really. If you use a low enough real peak nits value you can possibly completely bypass the display's tonemapping and not only avoid ruining anything but get a better result.
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So if my max nits is 350, is that what I have to set it at or lower ?
You need to find out what your actual contrast ratio is at different white nits values. If you push the display to 350 but black level rises in the same proportions then it's much less interesting because you don't gain any real dynamic range.
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Old 19th February 2020, 14:43   #58656  |  Link
huhn
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you get more >dynamic< range that's the point of the active backlight.

the CR stays the "same" if you run your new HDR TV at 1000 nits or at 100 nits.

Quote:
Depends on the display really. If you use a low enough real peak nits value you can possibly completely bypass the display's tonemapping and not only avoid ruining anything but get a better result.
there is a reason i said it can ruin everything not it will. with the aggressive back light and ABL of modern TVs is more then unlikely that you will ever find a way to disable the tone mapping completely while keeping the same peak nits.
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Old 19th February 2020, 14:45   #58657  |  Link
madjock
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How can his be 113, it has no mention of HSTM and 3 rows of numbers ?

Thats what Neo-XPs recent numbers are for ?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post59248256

He has quoted my one bizarrely.
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Last edited by madjock; 19th February 2020 at 14:49.
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Old 19th February 2020, 14:55   #58658  |  Link
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you get more >dynamic< range that's the point of the active backlight. the CR stays the "same" if you run your new HDR TV at 1000 nits or at 100 nits.
Of course, but this assumes the display has efficient local dimming, which sadly isn't always the case when it comes to LCDs, especially monitors and low- to mid-end TVs.
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How can his be 113, it has no mention of HSTM and 3 rows of numbers ?
I just installed v113 so I'm sure of that. There are no rows of numbers for curve values anymore and no mention of 'HSTM' either, it's been renamed to 'contrast recovery' with the different (non-tunable) curves available via a drop-down list (set to Hill Strong in mclingo's screenshot).
(Edit: check your madvr.ax date, v113 is 2020-01-20)
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Last edited by el Filou; 19th February 2020 at 15:02.
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Old 19th February 2020, 15:04   #58659  |  Link
huhn
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Of course, but this assumes the display has efficient local dimming, which sadly isn't always the case when it comes to LCDs, especially monitors and low- to mid-end TVs.
never seen an TV in the past 10 years that can't do that. the cheap backlights even have an edge they will not create holos black will simply not look black but it's an LCD.

what so ever his linked TV should be able to do that.
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Old 19th February 2020, 15:05   #58660  |  Link
madjock
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Ah ok well I guess Neo-XP says he has not used that version due to smooth motion causing issues, will try it now. Thanks.
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