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Old 25th July 2011, 13:53   #1  |  Link
ramicio
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Tron: Legacy lossless audio

I have the 2D disc and the DTS-HD Master, in all channels, is clipped to -2 dB. Pretty crappy... People need to be held responsible for their actions and stuff like this should be replaced. I have no idea about the other audio tracks. I guess the loudness war has now reached cinema.


Last edited by ramicio; 25th July 2011 at 13:56.
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Old 25th July 2011, 14:18   #2  |  Link
Ghitulescu
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Only if the distortions are audible
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Old 25th July 2011, 14:19   #3  |  Link
ramicio
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How is clipping not audible? Maybe people don't "notice" it because there is not a non-clipped version to compare it to. Not audible implies it is out of the range of human hearing... Please don't start these kind of pissing-match arguments.
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Old 25th July 2011, 14:24   #4  |  Link
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Hearing is subjective.
As you said, there's no unclipped version to compare with, this is a silent statement that it may not be heard unless told so or compared to.
Tron legacy is floating for a while, yet nobody complained about. Either you have a defective batch, or it went unnoticed.
I'm not starting an argument, I said that if one needs to use charts and comparison tests, then the chances are the distortions not be noticed (or to be taken as SciFi effects). Don't know, I don't have tron legacy. Lots of people swear on MP3 = WAV, even on ABX tests, yet they are different.

From my BD collection (will be soon in 3 digits range), all HD audio tracks were less loud than I got used from DVDs (still above the EBU requirements though).
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Old 25th July 2011, 14:31   #5  |  Link
ramicio
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1. I can easily hear clipping when I play 5.1 over stereo with mixing done to 100% on each channel.
2. When one spends their money on something that is supposed to be the best format out there, something like this should not be overlooked.
3. Nobody would complain because this generation doesn't give two licks about quality, they just care about the emotional aspect of everything. This generation is fine listening to 64 kbps music on crappy Apple ear-buds.

Why is quality a niche market, and this niche is becoming less of a right? There used to be the quick way to do things, with less quality, while there was also a more expensive side of things with utmost quality. Well now there is no offering of such quality, just one version for all the masses of idiots and technical people.

I don't think it went unnoticed...I think they were trying to have the loudest sound track around.

Last edited by ramicio; 25th July 2011 at 14:36.
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Old 25th July 2011, 14:45   #6  |  Link
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I agree with you on all counts, except that is the bulk of the people the one that, at least in theory, has something to say. When hundreds of idiots complain to eg Humax about the inability of its SAT-receiver to play AVIs (of unkown source ), the marketing dept. will focus all the energy to do this (if the receiver is still under development) despite the urgent need for eg a functional EPG. They are rather willing to loose few intelligent customers than to loose hundreds of stupid ones. That's democracy. And arithmetic.

Everything that brings money is sooner or later exploited. And luxury articles (read quality) has always been "taxed". Quality is a luxury.
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Old 25th July 2011, 19:28   #7  |  Link
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Isn't this an intentional stylistic thing? Isn't some of the music clipped to give it a synthetic, electronic feel?
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Old 26th July 2011, 03:24   #8  |  Link
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I'd hope not. It's really extreme.
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Old 1st August 2011, 19:13   #9  |  Link
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I got a chance to watch it this weekend. It officially sounds like COMPLETE crap. It is no them doing this to affect the music. It happens to all sounds. Mostly bass. I don't find sound distorted by clipping to be anything artistic.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 09:35   #10  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post
How is clipping not audible? Maybe people don't "notice" it because there is not a non-clipped version to compare it to. Not audible implies it is out of the range of human hearing...
"Not audible" implies it's there, but not enough for you to hear it.

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Originally Posted by ramicio View Post
I can easily hear clipping when I play 5.1 over stereo with mixing done to 100% on each channel.
Everyone can hear clipping, how much clipping there needs to be before you can hear it, well that's another story. Digital clipping is usually pretty obvious, but the amount of analogue clipping which can go unnoticed is usually much higher.
How is your 5.1 clipped when it's mixed to stereo? And by how much?

Last edited by hello_hello; 19th December 2014 at 14:21.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 10:13   #11  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
... Digital clipping is usually pretty obvious, ....
Not always, it depends how it was clipped and what kind of signal was clipped. Cheap/bad acquisition cards yield more "obvious" artefacts, even at short peaks, because the convertor resets itself when it reaches the max. value. Pro cards flatten the curve and this will be noticed only at wider peaks.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 13:24   #12  |  Link
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Every channel is severely clipped before being mixed.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 13:30   #13  |  Link
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Not always, it depends how it was clipped and what kind of signal was clipped.
I'm fairly sure I said "usually" and not "always". Yep, I just checked, and that's what I said.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 13:32   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramicio View Post
Every channel is severely clipped before being mixed.
I only see the clipping in the front 3 channels, and it's only in sections where the heavily synthesized electronic music score is. It seems highly likely that the clipping is in the musical score by Daft Punk (intentionally to get the sound they wanted), and is not a result of overall poor mixing of the soundtrack.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 13:33   #15  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ramicio View Post
Every channel is severely clipped before being mixed.
All 5.1ch audio is severely clipped before being mixed to stereo or just this particular disc?
So you can't hear this clipping until it's mixed to stereo?

Last edited by hello_hello; 2nd August 2011 at 13:36.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 13:49   #16  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
I'm fairly sure I said "usually" and not "always". Yep, I just checked, and that's what I said.
We are not talking here about amateurs, they are supposed to be pro. They are paid to do ALWAYS a good job, not just USUALLY.

It's either a defective mix, or an intentional one (sort of Jimmy Hendrix ). I tend to the first hypothesis.

I don't have this movie, I rely only on the info ramicio provided.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 15:02   #17  |  Link
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It's just this disc, hence the hullabaloo. I can hear it even when mixed to not clip. I would buy it as something artistic if it only applied to the music, but it applies to all sound of the movie. The peaks are chopped off right at -2 dB. The screenshot in my opening post is that of a single channel. Which channel I can't remember, offhand.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 15:38   #18  |  Link
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Does it only happen in the parts of the movie that are set in the computer world or also in the real world parts? If it's the former it could still be intentional.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 15:41   #19  |  Link
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It's the whole movie. I'm not even sure the real world scenes had any sound loud enough compared to the computer world.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 16:00   #20  |  Link
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When I wrote "it" I meant clipping that is not part of the music, I should have been more precise.
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