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Old 2nd November 2018, 02:08   #53521  |  Link
brazen1
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For your SDR problem, have you tried BT.2020, DCI-P3, and BT.709 options to see if that oversaturated red gets controlled? I use a profile for BT.2020 and another for BT.709 for calibration. Also 8bit or auto instead of 10bit for SDR 8bit? I use an 8bit and a 10bit profile for properties.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 02:27   #53522  |  Link
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that's the core problem you are not supposed to need that.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 03:26   #53523  |  Link
HillieSan
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
For your SDR problem, have you tried BT.2020, DCI-P3, and BT.709 options to see if that oversaturated red gets controlled? I use a profile for BT.2020 and another for BT.709 for calibration. Also 8bit or auto instead of 10bit for SDR 8bit? I use an 8bit and a 10bit profile for properties.
You are right. I am using PCI-P3 and no problems with my AMD RX card.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 09:08   #53524  |  Link
NoTechi
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What gamma are you using for HDR content? I tested so far a 3D LUT DCI-P3 with power gamma 2.2-2.4 with nice results. Now I tried a 3D LUT with madvr set to output in HDR format and ST2048 and JVC also on ST2048 and Guardians of the Galaxy looked fantastic. But when I looked at Iron Man 1 it was not watchable with it. Might be caused by just recalculating the 3D LUt instead of creating a new one with the JVC on ST2048 and HDR profile.

I was thinking I should go for:
1. A 3DLUT for 709 content with a gamma 2.2 or a bit higher using JVC 2020 profile since the calibration was made in DCI-P3
2. A 3DLUT for DCI-P3/BT2020 with gamma ST2048 using JVC HDR profile (which it would switch to automattically on my 7900)

Does this makes sense?

NoTechi

Last edited by NoTechi; 2nd November 2018 at 09:12.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 10:49   #53525  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
For your SDR problem, have you tried BT.2020, DCI-P3, and BT.709 options to see if that oversaturated red gets controlled? I use a profile for BT.2020 and another for BT.709 for calibration. Also 8bit or auto instead of 10bit for SDR 8bit? I use an 8bit and a 10bit profile for properties.

Hi mate, luckily yes that does work, ive been using it as a workaround for a good while now. I use BT2020 as BT709 still gives quite a red image.

Like Huhn says though this shouldht be required which is the core problem, many thanks for your input though.

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Old 2nd November 2018, 10:53   #53526  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
You are right. I am using PCI-P3 and no problems with my AMD RX card.

Hi, I find by calibrating for BT2020 resolves the issue completely for me and I dont need separate profiles for any other material, no other material seems affected by this for me which in itself is odd suggesting whatever is happening is happening towards the end of the processing chain maybe.

its quite a bizzare problem but I guess its nice to know i'm not the only one who has it and not an issue with my own setup.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 11:12   #53527  |  Link
el Filou
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If I play an SDR movie which is native 2160p its fine so it seems to be the upscaling part which is confusing something in the driver / output chain. All 2160p HDR material is also unaffected.
What is the native colour space of SDR 2160p movies? BT.709 or DCI-P3/BT.2020?
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that's the core problem you are not supposed to need that.
Why not? Wouldn't UHDTV displays that conform to Rec.2020 expect the content to be in BT.2020 when the definition is 2160p SDR (Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2...em_colorimetry), just like HD displays expected BT.709 when being fed > 576p? Maybe the Radeon is enforcing the standard really hard? (Edit: i.e. indicating BT.2020 in the HDMI metadata when it's outputting 2160p even though madVR is sending BT.709?)
Just like 8-bit HDR or even 8-bit UHD, maybe BT.709 UHD is technically accepted by some displays but not following the standard and therefore not tested/considered by manufacturers?
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Last edited by el Filou; 2nd November 2018 at 11:15.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 11:20   #53528  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
What is the native colour space of SDR 2160p movies? BT.709 or DCI-P3/BT.2020?
Both exist and are valid. You'll probably find more BT.709 content still though. If you have a BT.2020/DCI-P3 capable screen with a decent color volume, I would probably calibrate for DCI-P3 (or even BT.2020) and let madVR change all content to that.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 14:05   #53529  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
What is the native colour space of SDR 2160p movies? BT.709 or DCI-P3/BT.2020?Why not? Wouldn't UHDTV displays that conform to Rec.2020 expect the content to be in BT.2020 when the definition is 2160p SDR (Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2...em_colorimetry), just like HD displays expected BT.709 when being fed > 576p? Maybe the Radeon is enforcing the standard really hard? (Edit: i.e. indicating BT.2020 in the HDMI metadata when it's outputting 2160p even though madVR is sending BT.709?)
Just like 8-bit HDR or even 8-bit UHD, maybe BT.709 UHD is technically accepted by some displays but not following the standard and therefore not tested/considered by manufacturers?

Hi,if this were the case you'd see this with NVIDA cards too though surely, I have no issues with my 1050 card, i've even tried two different HDR capable TVs
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Old 2nd November 2018, 14:56   #53530  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
Hi,if this were the case you'd see this with NVIDA cards too though surely, I have no issues with my 1050 card, i've even tried two different HDR capable TVs
Hmmm....the other day, when I connected my very old comp with ATI HD6570 to plasma, it reported xv.color color signal which is kind of like old wide gamut "standard" and I don't know how this happens, I never activated it if I can recall correctly...I haven't looked closer into this, and can't tell if I get wider gamut and more saturated colors because i didn't have time to look into how to deactivate this...I could connect it to my UHD over the weekend, but perhaps this could be a clue for you -> perhaps BT.2020 is signalled to TV without you knowing about it (like a sort of AMD-specific user friendliness)and TV switches to it's wide gamut mode (probably native colorspace)

Last edited by mytbyte; 2nd November 2018 at 15:01.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 15:23   #53531  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Why not? Wouldn't UHDTV displays that conform to Rec.2020 expect the content to be in BT.2020 when the definition is 2160p SDR (Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2...em_colorimetry), just like HD displays expected BT.709 when being fed > 576p? Maybe the Radeon is enforcing the standard really hard? (Edit: i.e. indicating BT.2020 in the HDMI metadata when it's outputting 2160p even though madVR is sending BT.709?)
Just like 8-bit HDR or even 8-bit UHD, maybe BT.709 UHD is technically accepted by some displays but not following the standard and therefore not tested/considered by manufacturers?
UHD TV that get an SDT UHD image usually stay in bt 709 mode and they should you don't know it it is rescaled or what ever.

for an HDR signal it should assume bt 2020 or even better the connection should say bt 2020 and this API is broken for AMD.

if amd is changing the HDMI color information based on bit deep and resolution alone than they are as dumb as they could be.
GPU are mostly created for gaming and there is at least 1 game that can be rendered in 10 bit SDR and nearly every d3d11 game could do the same way before HDR or bt2020 was a thing so they are SDR and most important windows doesn't change its color space based on bit deep and resolution so if in doubt use the same as windows.

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Originally Posted by SirSwede View Post
NGU Sharp would be too sharp for me, as I am using Sharpen Complex 2 in MPC-HC.

Would the GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB GDDR5 be able to handle something like: NGU AA, RCA and SC2 for upscaling 720p to 4K?
than don't use sharpen complex.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 15:25   #53532  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
Hmmm....the other day, when I connected my very old comp with ATI HD6570 to plasma, it reported xv.color color signal which is kind of like old wide gamut "standard" and I don't know how this happens, I never activated it if I can recall correctly...I haven't looked closer into this, and can't tell if I get wider gamut and more saturated colors because i didn't have time to look into how to deactivate this...I could connect it to my UHD over the weekend, but perhaps this could be a clue for you -> perhaps BT.2020 is signalled to TV without you knowing about it (like a sort of AMD-specific user friendliness)and TV switches to it's wide gamut mode (probably native colorspace)
yes that is definitely a possibility, no ides how we'd track this down though,it would still be circumstantial, we really need MADSHIs input there but I think he's busy right now.

One other thing fixes this that I mentioned a while back but I didnt really look into my settings to hard to this might be a false positive, if I put my TV in PC mode this fixes it, could be something to do with that as well, perhaps the TV knows its a PC as is adjuting accordingly but as I have it in Bluray mode is showing the wrong colour space / saturation. There could be a difference between how a PC outputs 10 bit and how a bluray player does.

its all very complicated, just glad i have a workaround for now
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Old 2nd November 2018, 21:58   #53533  |  Link
mclingo
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(1) - sorry if this is a stupid question, (2) sorry if i've asked this before but why is there no profile group allowed for rendering, if this was possible it could solve a few issues, being able to turn DIRECT3D11 off for SDR material would be useful, perhaps being able to turn off FSE per media type might also be useful?
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Old 2nd November 2018, 22:46   #53534  |  Link
huhn
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but you can do that with profiles.
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Old 2nd November 2018, 22:48   #53535  |  Link
mclingo
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oh feck so you can, sorry.

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Old 2nd November 2018, 22:52   #53536  |  Link
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would it be true to say that the DIRECT3D11 option is only required for HDR 10bit playback and doesnt need to be on for any 8 bit SDR playback at all then?
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Old 3rd November 2018, 00:16   #53537  |  Link
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nvidia can do HDR without it so yeah you only really need it for amd HDR.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 15:57   #53538  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by NoTechi View Post
What gamma are you using for HDR content? I tested so far a 3D LUT DCI-P3 with power gamma 2.2-2.4 with nice results. Now I tried a 3D LUT with madvr set to output in HDR format and ST2048 and JVC also on ST2048 and Guardians of the Galaxy looked fantastic. But when I looked at Iron Man 1 it was not watchable with it. Might be caused by just recalculating the 3D LUt instead of creating a new one with the JVC on ST2048 and HDR profile.

I was thinking I should go for:
1. A 3DLUT for 709 content with a gamma 2.2 or a bit higher using JVC 2020 profile since the calibration was made in DCI-P3
2. A 3DLUT for DCI-P3/BT2020 with gamma ST2048 using JVC HDR profile (which it would switch to automattically on my 7900)

Does this makes sense?

NoTechi
1. A 3D LUT for BT.709 content is still considered the reference.
2. A 3D LUT is used to tone map in PQ using the projector's HDR mode. You would lose HDR -> SDR pixel shader, which I know you like. The 3D LUT could do a fine job, but it is a fixed curve for all videos and not dynamic like pixel shader. A 3D LUT for HDR content is not yet the reference, so choose the option with the best image quality. You could also try multiple 3D LUTs for different video peaks.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 16:30   #53539  |  Link
ashlar42
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I created some instructions for those who are using current test builds wanting to try madMeasureHDR. Those at AVSForums are already well-versed on the current methods.

Instructions: Using madMeasureHDR to create dynamic HDR10 metadata

This is the only place this information is published and I'll update it as the tool changes.
Sorry if this question is stupid but...

These measurements are used to do something similar to what Dolby Vision/HDR10+ do with regular HDR10 material? So madVR can make full use of a panel highlights capabilities on a scene by scene basis?
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Old 3rd November 2018, 16:45   #53540  |  Link
Warner306
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It reduces the compression applied by the tone mapping curve when possible by setting the curve for each scene. If you measure a file before playing it, it is possible to pick out scenes and the measurement tool will flag the brightness of the scene. Then the tone curve is set for each scene in the video. This has the most impact slightly above the set target nits.

Tone mapping goes under the PQ curve, which makes the image darker, and dynamic tone mapping attempts to dynamically reduce compression when possible.
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