madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) - Page 2427

nevcairiel · 20th January 2018, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclingo

I appreciate that 3D isnt for everyone but I cant help feeling those that are against it just haven't had the right experience with it at home.

I don't even like it in the cinema, so what chance does home have?

mclingo · 20th January 2018, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

I don't even like it in the cinema, so what chance does home have?

I actually prefer the home now to if i'm being honest, you just dont get the black performance you get at the cinema, everything look loads better on my OLED.

Sound is defo better at the cinema for me though, my setup is in my lounge and it isnt ideal but its good enough.

I think you might be in a minority here, however we're all glad you are prepared to put your own feeling about 3D to one side and develop for everyone.

Thanks again for all your hard work and for taking the time to engage us all in conversation.

Its very much appreciated.

SamuriHL · 20th January 2018, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Fair call, I notice frame drops every time they happen now, I recently updated my drivers and it knocked my custom res out and of course I notice this frame drop and had to redo my custom res.
Frame drops/repeats are cancer, I'd rather not take the resolution hit enabling Smooth Motion, so yeah totally understand where you're coming from. Nvidia needs to get it together to improve this out of the box.

I agree. Even with a custom res I wasn't able to eliminate frame drops this time. That's annoying. Before I had it like 1 every 3 hours which is perfect for the average movie. I got it to 1 every 9 minutes before I left for vacation. I'll mess with it more when I get back. Madvr it's great with the custom res feature.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

el Filou · 20th January 2018, 16:13

You mean after every driver update you have to re-do the custom refresh rate optimisation, and it's not guaranteed the results will be as good as earlier? There isn't a way to save the custom refresh rates settings before updating the drivers and restore them afterwards?

Manni · 20th January 2018, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

I agree. Even with a custom res I wasn't able to eliminate frame drops this time. That's annoying. Before I had it like 1 every 3 hours which is perfect for the average movie. I got it to 1 every 9 minutes before I left for vacation. I'll mess with it more when I get back. Madvr it's great with the custom res feature.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

If you are on nVidia, please can you provide a step by step regarding using CRU to create a custom profile for 1080p23FP that would work with MadVR? I tried and wasn't able to.

jasonwc18 · 20th January 2018, 16:29

What's the relative quality difference between using NGU Sharp in High vs. Very High modes for Luma doubling? They both look excellent on my 120" screen from an 11' seating distance but it's hard to compare them without doing A/B comparisons with individual frames. With Very Sharp, you get High quality (as opposed to Medium) compression artifact removal which is a perk. The madvr GUI shows that the Very High setting yields a sharpness improvement and slightly less ringing but its not clear to what extent this is visible. For example, x264 "Placebo" mode also yields a small improvement but massively increases the performance impact. I'm wondering if NGU Very High is similar.

Also, as a general setting, does it make sense to turn on debanding? I currently have it set to Low/High but since I generally watch high quality Blu-Ray sources, I generally only see a benefit for fade ins/outs. It does makes a significant improvement at the beginning of the Planet Earth II episodes on Blu-Ray (one of the nice thinks about the UHD Blu-Ray's is that the 10 bit color eliminates this banding - clearly visible on the Planet Earth II UHD BDs). I read that the higher settings remove detail so I'm hesitant to use a higher setting for default debanding strength.

mclingo · 20th January 2018, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonwc18

What's the relative quality difference between using NGU Sharp in High vs. Very High modes for Luma doubling? They both look excellent on my 120" screen from an 11' seating distance but it's hard to compare them without doing A/B comparisons with individual frames. With Very Sharp, you get High quality (as opposed to Medium) compression artifact removal which is a perk. The madvr GUI shows that the Very High setting yields a sharpness improvement and slightly less ringing but its not clear to what extent this is visible. For example, x264 "Placebo" mode also yields a small improvement but massively increases the performance impact. I'm wondering if NGU Very High is similar.

Also, as a general setting, does it make sense to turn on debanding? I currently have it set to Low/High but since I generally watch high quality Blu-Ray sources, I generally only see a benefit for fade ins/outs. It does makes a significant improvement at the beginning of the Planet Earth II episodes on Blu-Ray (one of the nice thinks about the UHD Blu-Ray's is that the 10 bit color eliminates this banding - clearly visible on the Planet Earth II UHD BDs). I read that the higher settings remove detail so I'm hesitant to use a higher setting for default debanding strength.

debanding - you lose detail even on low, this should be off and only used for really poor quality content.

el Filou · 20th January 2018, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonwc18

They both look excellent on my 120" screen from an 11' seating distance but it's hard to compare them without doing A/B comparisons with individual frames.

Then do comparisons with individual frames.

MPC-HC can go directly to a frame number, I guess other players have that feature too.
It's always best to compare yourself because every setup is different and every person has different preferences.

jasonwc18 · 20th January 2018, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclingo

debanding - you lose detail even on low, this should be off and only used for really poor quality content.

Good to know; then I might as well keep my current settings. With Luma set to NGU Sharp Very High, Chroma set to NGU AA Medium, artifact removal at High, and a 3D LUT in use, I'm getting render times of around 25 ms on a GTX 1070. Debanding brought that over 30 ms.

I have been avoiding the deringing filter for the same reason you mentioned. I read it shouldn't be used on high quality sources.

Asmodian · 20th January 2018, 21:01

It is pretty small, I could relate it to placebo in x264. It is better, and so is x264's placebo mode, but each step of NGU Sharp is less important. I think the quality v.s. performance hit of NGU veryhigh compared to high is better than x264's placebo compared to veryslow, but not drastically so. The choice is also a bit different because x264's placebo takes a lot more time (and thus power) while NGU veryhigh simply takes more power. You need all NGUs to run in real time to be able to use them at all.

Medium is a lot better than low, high is noticeably better than medium, and very high is a bit better than high. At least this is what I noticed during my testing. For luma I always run very high if I can.

For chroma I was convinced to stay at high or below all the time, I have never noticed quality improvements during playback with very high for chroma and there have even been a few examples where very high seemed a little worse. There isn't much fine detail in chroma, sub-sampling is very damaging, so the extra power used for very high is simply wasted.

ryrynz · 20th January 2018, 21:17

Asmodian's comments were my exact findings also.

jasonwc18 · 20th January 2018, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asmodian

It is pretty small, I could relate it to placebo in x264. It is better, and so is x264's placebo mode, but each step of NGU Sharp is less important. I think the quality v.s. performance hit of NGU veryhigh compared to high is better than x264's placebo compared to veryslow, but not drastically so. The choice is also a bit different because x264's placebo takes a lot more time (and thus power) while NGU veryhigh simply takes more power. You need all NGUs to run in real time to be able to use them at all.

Medium is a lot better than low, high is noticeably better than medium, and very high is a bit better than high. At least this is what I noticed during my testing. For luma I always run very high if I can.

For chroma I was convinced to stay at high or below all the time, I have never noticed quality improvements during playback with very high for chroma and there have even been a few examples where very high seemed a little worse. There isn't much fine detail in chroma, sub-sampling is very damaging, so the extra power used for very high is simply wasted.

Thanks, this was very helpful!

Rexian · 20th January 2018, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

I don't even like it in the cinema, so what chance does home have?

You really need to try it with a 2016 OLED (C/E/G6). Of course bigger the better (saw a demo on 77" G6 and it was much better than theater) when it comes to 3D but even on my 65" E6, it looks awesome. Probably because I sit right in front of it and in theater you don't have much control. The active 3D on Samsung sucks and gave me headache at a friend's place and almost wrote off 3D

James_b · 20th January 2018, 21:38

MadVR meets old school CRT-projector from the 90's

(1920 x 816 / 71.952Hz) 2,2 m screen

MPC madVR + DXVA downscaling, Sharpness complex 2 post Scaling.

Nvidea edge enhancement 47% 0-255 + Nvidea Video gamma ramps at 1.24 ---> Moome HDMI-card in Projector, 0-255

CPU Quad 2,4. Videocard, MSI GT 710 2GD3H LP ~900 mHz

ryrynz · 20th January 2018, 21:42

Unfortunately though having a good 3D experience on a single outdated TV doesn't really make the solution terribly attractive xD

James, upload those to an image host and link em, they'll be pending 4dayz.

Dodgexander · 21st January 2018, 05:09

1. Does MadVR support hardware acceleration for HEVC?
There is a lot of info out there that states MadVR doesn't support hardware decoding for HEVC, even with 9xx 10xx series Nvidia cards.

2. What is the minimum recommended video card now for upscaling to UHD? I don't care so much about using advance scalers, just basic.

3. Will it be possible to output 2x HDMi, one to an older receiver, one to an UHD display without any issues? I read HDMI clone/extended will work for this purpose. I have a non Atmos AVR but want to keep UHD whilst retaining True HD/DTS HD sound.

Asmodian · 21st January 2018, 05:21

1) LAV Video does the hardware decoding, madVR has nothing to do with it. Hardware decoding of HEVC with LAV+madVR works very well on my Titan X (Pascal).

2) 1050 Ti, or maybe anything with 3 or more GB of RAM.

3) Yes

huhn · 21st January 2018, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodgexander

1. Does MadVR support hardware acceleration for HEVC?
There is a lot of info out there that states MadVR doesn't support hardware decoding for HEVC, even with 9xx 10xx series Nvidia cards.

madVR has nothing todo with acceleration support. lavfilter can decode HEVC and you can renderer them with madVR.
madVR doesn't have decoders anymore.

Quote:

2. What is the minimum recommended video card now for upscaling to UHD? I don't care so much about using advance scalers, just basic.

1050 ti or you risk running out of memory.

Quote:

3. Will it be possible to output 2x HDMi, one to an older receiver, one to an UHD display without any issues? I read HDMI clone/extended will work for this purpose. I have a non Atmos AVR but want to keep UHD whilst retaining True HD/DTS HD sound.

this should work but i'm not going to garantie you a issue free playback at this point.
you don't have to clone it you just have to send an image to the AVR that's it.

Asmodian · 21st January 2018, 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_b

Nvidea edge enhancement 47% 0-255 + Nvidea Video gamma ramps at 1.24 ---> Moome HDMI-card in Projector, 0-255

Ouch.

Do that in madVR! Nvidia's stuff is terrible.

Dodgexander · 21st January 2018, 05:57

Thanks guys, I was surprised how much I had to search to find this answer.

I am an old time MadVR user back when the HD4870 ATI card was good for scaling to 1080p. I take it AMD don't have any viable alternatives to Nvidia's 1050TI?

Anyone using PowerDVD17 and UHD Blu-Rays? I doubt it will work with a separate HDMI audio out so I resigned myself to getting an UHD Blu-Ray player for discs.

20th January 2018, 16:13	#48524 \| Link
el Filou Registered User Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 896	You mean after every driver update you have to re-do the custom refresh rate optimisation, and it's not guaranteed the results will be as good as earlier? There isn't a way to save the custom refresh rates settings before updating the drivers and restore them afterwards? __________________ HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40

20th January 2018, 16:29	#48526 \| Link
jasonwc18 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 20	Relative quality difference between NGU Sharp High vs. Very High What's the relative quality difference between using NGU Sharp in High vs. Very High modes for Luma doubling? They both look excellent on my 120" screen from an 11' seating distance but it's hard to compare them without doing A/B comparisons with individual frames. With Very Sharp, you get High quality (as opposed to Medium) compression artifact removal which is a perk. The madvr GUI shows that the Very High setting yields a sharpness improvement and slightly less ringing but its not clear to what extent this is visible. For example, x264 "Placebo" mode also yields a small improvement but massively increases the performance impact. I'm wondering if NGU Very High is similar. Also, as a general setting, does it make sense to turn on debanding? I currently have it set to Low/High but since I generally watch high quality Blu-Ray sources, I generally only see a benefit for fade ins/outs. It does makes a significant improvement at the beginning of the Planet Earth II episodes on Blu-Ray (one of the nice thinks about the UHD Blu-Ray's is that the 10 bit color eliminates this banding - clearly visible on the Planet Earth II UHD BDs). I read that the higher settings remove detail so I'm hesitant to use a higher setting for default debanding strength. Last edited by jasonwc18; 20th January 2018 at 16:37.

20th January 2018, 21:01	#48530 \| Link
Asmodian Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 4,407	It is pretty small, I could relate it to placebo in x264. It is better, and so is x264's placebo mode, but each step of NGU Sharp is less important. I think the quality v.s. performance hit of NGU veryhigh compared to high is better than x264's placebo compared to veryslow, but not drastically so. The choice is also a bit different because x264's placebo takes a lot more time (and thus power) while NGU veryhigh simply takes more power. You need all NGUs to run in real time to be able to use them at all. Medium is a lot better than low, high is noticeably better than medium, and very high is a bit better than high. At least this is what I noticed during my testing. For luma I always run very high if I can. For chroma I was convinced to stay at high or below all the time, I have never noticed quality improvements during playback with very high for chroma and there have even been a few examples where very high seemed a little worse. There isn't much fine detail in chroma, sub-sampling is very damaging, so the extra power used for very high is simply wasted. __________________ madVR options explained

20th January 2018, 21:38	#48534 \| Link
James_b Registered User Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 25	MadVR meets old school CRT-projector from the 90's (1920 x 816 / 71.952Hz) 2,2 m screen MPC madVR + DXVA downscaling, Sharpness complex 2 post Scaling. Nvidea edge enhancement 47% 0-255 + Nvidea Video gamma ramps at 1.24 ---> Moome HDMI-card in Projector, 0-255 CPU Quad 2,4. Videocard, MSI GT 710 2GD3H LP ~900 mHz Attached Images Last edited by James_b; 20th January 2018 at 22:28.

21st January 2018, 05:09	#48536 \| Link
Dodgexander Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 157	Questions 1. Does MadVR support hardware acceleration for HEVC? There is a lot of info out there that states MadVR doesn't support hardware decoding for HEVC, even with 9xx 10xx series Nvidia cards. 2. What is the minimum recommended video card now for upscaling to UHD? I don't care so much about using advance scalers, just basic. 3. Will it be possible to output 2x HDMi, one to an older receiver, one to an UHD display without any issues? I read HDMI clone/extended will work for this purpose. I have a non Atmos AVR but want to keep UHD whilst retaining True HD/DTS HD sound.

20th January 2018, 21:17	#48531 \| Link
ryrynz Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,650	Asmodian's comments were my exact findings also.

20th January 2018, 21:42	#48535 \| Link
ryrynz Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,650	Unfortunately though having a good 3D experience on a single outdated TV doesn't really make the solution terribly attractive xD James, upload those to an image host and link em, they'll be pending 4dayz.

21st January 2018, 05:21	#48537 \| Link
Asmodian Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 4,407	1) LAV Video does the hardware decoding, madVR has nothing to do with it. Hardware decoding of HEVC with LAV+madVR works very well on my Titan X (Pascal). 2) 1050 Ti, or maybe anything with 3 or more GB of RAM. 3) Yes __________________ madVR options explained

21st January 2018, 05:57	#48540 \| Link
Dodgexander Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 157	Thanks guys, I was surprised how much I had to search to find this answer. I am an old time MadVR user back when the HD4870 ATI card was good for scaling to 1080p. I take it AMD don't have any viable alternatives to Nvidia's 1050TI? Anyone using PowerDVD17 and UHD Blu-Rays? I doubt it will work with a separate HDMI audio out so I resigned myself to getting an UHD Blu-Ray player for discs.