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Old 21st June 2018, 15:24   #51441  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by starlight2 View Post
Help me pleasee?
these settings are subjective, you just need to try them out for yourself and see which works best for you, there is no objective settings that anyone can recommend beyond those that are set at default install, these are set for max compatibility rather than quality.

start with NGU sharp high for Chroma and upscaling, if your card cant handle that tinker with it until it can.


There is plenty of documentation on this too for you to read.
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Old 21st June 2018, 15:46   #51442  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by starlight2 View Post
Help me pleasee?
There isn't a whole lot you can do to boost the image quality of a 1080p -> 1080p source. Choose any of the NGU or Reconstruction settings for chroma upscaling. Set dithering to Error Diffusion. Artifact removal is up to preference. If you want the image to be sharper, try image enhancements.
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Old 21st June 2018, 15:49   #51443  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by giulianoprs View Post
ok, I try this way, thanks to everyone, although I believe that with those filters set I will put a strain on my gpu, sorry my english not correct, hello and good evening !!!
I thought that might happen. If you choose NGU Sharp low - very high, you can use reduce compression artifacts for free. Turn off debanding. If that doesn't work, try reduce random noise. There might not be much else you can do for a bad source.

If you are using Kodi, chances are DXVA2 image upscaling is using Bilinear upscaling, which will smooth the noise, but won't work well for good sources. It is a tradeoff no matter what you use.

Last edited by Warner306; 22nd June 2018 at 15:59.
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Old 21st June 2018, 15:52   #51444  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
What's that saying? No grain..... no pain?
Some directors like Christopher Nolan make good use of film. But grain is an artifact, so it doesn't really serve any purpose. If the source isn't captured well, post-production usually isn't enough to improve it. I feel the same way about compressed sources. Once a source is compressed by a certain threshold, it becomes a lost cause and there is little point in attempting to enhance it.
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Old 21st June 2018, 16:17   #51445  |  Link
huhn
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grain on modern movies is intentionally added it's not an artifact.

even a mobilephone camera can capture images with less grain than todays films this should tell you everything you need to know.
the choicen refreshrate has obviously nothing todo with grain.

madVR has an option to add grain when upscaling i'm pretty sure madshi adds this feature with purpose.
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Old 21st June 2018, 16:17   #51446  |  Link
mclingo
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i'm down with grain where it works but its the really bobbly stuff which can be very distracting to watch, you see this mainly in stuff like The walking dead, I rarely see it movies unless its a low light shot and that cant be helped really.

Rule of thumb to me is, if I notice it, either there is too much grain or the film isnt interesting enough, I dont go looking for it though and I rarely notice it
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Old 21st June 2018, 17:41   #51447  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
grain on modern movies is intentionally added it's not an artifact.

even a mobilephone camera can capture images with less grain than todays films this should tell you everything you need to know.
the choicen refreshrate has obviously nothing todo with grain.

madVR has an option to add grain when upscaling i'm pretty sure madshi adds this feature with purpose.
Yes, but the grain is meant to create the look of old movies, which had this artifact. And adding grain to correct artifacts is another story. It is more of a post-production tool than a necessary part of the image.

I'm guess I'm saying, what is grain? What does it represent? Is it meant to represent a dreamlike state or an imaginary world? What place does it have in the real world?

Last edited by Warner306; 21st June 2018 at 18:08.
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Old 21st June 2018, 18:31   #51448  |  Link
brazen1
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War of the Worlds (2005) is a perfect example of grain abuse. There are many others. Too many imo. Yes, the grain is intended by the director to 'enhance' the ambience of the movie. I just don't view it as an enhancement that benefits my experience more than without it. Just the opposite. It ruins it. Fortunately, we have been given a tool, RCA, to correct what I consider, a blunder. We've been given another one, add grain, for those that find it enhancing though I can't understand anyone in their right mind using it.

4k remasters of old titles are famous for pronounced grain/artifacts. Viewed originally 480p-1080p, much of it was hidden. Now remastered in 4k, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Why it isn't processed out, I don't know but thankfully our RCA tool will do it.

I still prefer digitally capturing frames in video vs burning it on nitrate film. Everything about it is superior imo. I've seen video commercials that add fake grain and artifacts to keep appealing to their old school audiences. It's kinda' funny really. And I agree, a 4k iPhone produces a cleaner image than expensive film cameras. Not to mention the upset in the industry regarding jobs and time that generates revenue opposed to video that a child can shoot and edit in real time producing a better picture than skilled hands. Still I realize Joe Public has a hard time adapting and adopting to new perspectives.

Look how many still pound fists that 2160p is not an upgrade from 1080p and use seating distances as excuses. HDR is deemed a gimmick too. Most media sold are DVD's. Many, many older people still prefer VCR's. Folks cling to what they know and what they were raised on. I was raised on all of this. I remember B/W TV with only 7 channels offered. When a show was an hour long and commercials, I mean 'sponsers' got a mention at the beginning and end of the show. The advancement of precision displays and clean video sources is a gift from heaven I'm able to utilize in my lifetime. For the sources clinging to old timey appeasement, thank you madshi for giving us spoons of sugar to sweeten this unpalatable cuisine. Thank you to display manufactures for the adjustments in your products to enhance sources to our tastes should we desire to break the mold. One day new generations will laugh at grainy film like we do at the quality of 1st gen 'talkies'. I think everyone here is looking for perfection. Consider yourself on the cutting edge.
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Last edited by brazen1; 21st June 2018 at 18:38.
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Old 21st June 2018, 18:54   #51449  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Yes, but the grain is meant to create the look of old movies, which had this artifact. And adding grain to correct artifacts is another story. It is more of a post-production tool than a necessary part of the image.

I'm guess I'm saying, what is grain? What does it represent? Is it meant to represent a dreamlike state or an imaginary world? What place does it have in the real world?
upscale a dvd with ngu and compare it with add grain and without it.

you should quickly see what the idea behind it is.
not here to convince you to use it or something just here to show you it's purpose.

@brazen1
out of the box screen are more and more inaccurate so much about perfection.
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Old 21st June 2018, 19:34   #51450  |  Link
bisse
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film grain

I absolutely LOVE film grain. It's pretty. I hate any kind of grain filtering/management.
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Old 21st June 2018, 19:37   #51451  |  Link
brazen1
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Nothing is perfect huhn. But most things are more perfect than their predecessors. I can assure you, I don't care what panel you purchase today or what it looks like out of the box. The difference is night and day compared to the B/W Zenith console of days gone by. To pick apart the imperfections of modern TV's compared to what they used to be is silly. To look at the two side by side, one would be considered perfect. I suppose in todays modern times, you could side by side compare a $75,000 commercial editing monitor next to your $10,000 retail OLED and gawk at how imperfect it is.

Most of us are already splurging a couple grand for a TV even though the money would be spent more wisely elsewhere. Not all of us are concerned about every conceivable drawback. We strive for the best perfection no matter what we have and madVR is a great tool that can be applied to any environment to make up for these imperfections. Some worse than others, some better. Even the studios post produce imperfections because nothing is perfect. A purists idea of perfection is unaltered. They love the inaccuracies. I don't and any chance to alter them to be less is closer to perfection in my opinion.

Audiophiles prefer vinyl depth and analog needles against plastic grooves bouncing up and down scratching the sound to a speaker. This is Alexander Graham Bell tech. It's been replaced. Is it perfect? No, but it's subjectively better. I had a blown injected 426 Hemi once that got 1/4 mile to the gallon. I thought it was perfect. Now I drive a Prius. A to B it's perfect.... unless you're in a hurry.
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Old 21st June 2018, 19:40   #51452  |  Link
Quiet
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I'll watch an untouched original film rather than a restored one with all the grain removed. Anyday.
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Old 21st June 2018, 19:48   #51453  |  Link
huhn
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because a screen cost 400 bucks doesn't mean it can't be calibrated "perfectly".

if take a mastering display a cheap 400 buck calibrate them and put a out of the box 3k bucks TV next to them you have one that looks like garbage guess which one.
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Old 21st June 2018, 21:08   #51454  |  Link
starlight2
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If i want Watch film 4k in the Fullhd with downscaling madvr...this is possible?this is best quality vs 1080p materials to display fhd? Thank you
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Old 21st June 2018, 21:12   #51455  |  Link
huhn
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depends on the content but potential yes.
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Old 21st June 2018, 22:03   #51456  |  Link
giulianoprs
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I did not want to open a discussion for the "grain" that a certain film or TV series may have, I chose "the walking dead" just because in the registration phase there, I wanted to test the potential of madvr with determined situations, and thank all for the recommended advice and settings, unfortunately today the pc indeed windows 10 if blocked, no longer starts, that bad luck, I have to format and install all the software from the beginning, Ugh!
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Old 21st June 2018, 22:26   #51457  |  Link
Redemption80
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Processing the grain out of remaster of old films is something that happens, but it usually gets met with so much abuse and one star rating for the BluRay etc... that it tends to put studios off too much tinkering. It still happens though.

I don't mind grain if it's not excessive but i will always favour a film source over a digital video source unless it's a sporting even.
I have even added it via post processing when dealing with lower quality sources as it helps hide other artefacts and creates the the illusion of more detail. I don't think that is the case with Walking Dead, i don't know about now, but to start with the show was filmed on 16mm film, which will always be grainy.

Anyway, that is not why i came her to post, and it's more of a question for Nvidia users.
is it just me, or does anyone else think we will be stuck with 390.77 forever.

I'm not much of a gamer these days, but i'm still considering going back to dual booting and creating a gaming and HTPC partition.

Last edited by Redemption80; 21st June 2018 at 22:31.
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Old 21st June 2018, 22:31   #51458  |  Link
amichaelt
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Only is if the grain is the result of the director's intent.
Even if it wasn't, the grain can't be removed without impacting actual detail. One just has to look at the plasticky, waxy-faced Blu-rays that have been DNRed to see this. Or just watch the Terminator 2 Ultra-HD Blu-ray. It just looks like a waxy mess.
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Old 21st June 2018, 23:03   #51459  |  Link
JarrettH
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Grain *is* the picture
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Old 22nd June 2018, 03:09   #51460  |  Link
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Time to reign in the main topic boys.
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