Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
16th June 2015, 15:20 | #31141 | Link | ||||||
Registered Developer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
> But in the left half of the squirrel test pattern, actually there > were less ringing artifacts with LL turned on compared to off. Then you replied with: > If you refer strictly to the diagonal lines test, please zoom > into your own images and show me that there is actually less > ringing, because I could not reproduce that. LL always produces > darker edges with more heavy ringing. ("diag" shows the same effect as the diagonal lines) Quote:
Well, I think you really need to decide first if you want to test for image enhancements or for upscaling refinement. Either is fine with me, but needs different testing methods. If you want to test upscaling refinement, I'd suggest to double resolution exactly, by setting MPC-HC to "Double Size", and then pick any sharp 480 or 720 source, double resolution and try to find FineSharp settings which more or less restore the original sharpness. That would then be the ideal setting for "high" for upscaling refinement. You may want to play with both "strength" and "thinning", because both are mostly independent of each other and have different effects. |
||||||
16th June 2015, 15:46 | #31143 | Link |
Registered Developer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
|
Hmmmm... I've done some checks with Anime content now, and I have to say, although I was able to find some examples where "LL on" looked better, it was much easier to find examples where "LL on" screwed things up quite noticably. The BT.709 test build seems to sit in the middle, but from a quick check with Anime content, my vote right now would still go to "LL off", because there are more situations where "LL off" looks better compared to even the BT.709 middle ground test build.
Can anybody else besides iSunrise, aufkrawall and me go back to v0.88.11 and compare FineSharp with LL on/off with Anime content (and maybe double check with the test build)? There were several votes in favor of "LL on", so I don't want to revert that decision without some more "support". Thanks. |
16th June 2015, 15:53 | #31145 | Link |
Registered Developer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
|
What good would it be to ask for feedback - and then ignore it when it comes? Just trying to achieve the best possible image quality. But I always like to look at the good and bad sides of all options first, before making a decision.
|
16th June 2015, 16:07 | #31147 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
|
Unlike camera captured material, anime is digitally or hand drawn with ideal and maximum sharpness.
Anime is not blurred (low pass filter or MTF) by the lens or electronics to prevent aliasing or moire that is captured by camera. Anime or cartoons ARE high contrast material with sharp lines filled with color. IMO, sharpness algorithms are there so that we can compensate for "less than ideal" camera traits. This is why super-sampling then dowscaling looks sharper, or capturing with 5K camera and downscaling to HD look WAY better than capturing with HD camera to HD (the Hobbit for example). Sharpness algorithms are there to emulate that. That is why I think anime or cartoons are no indicator or the right way to tweak a sharpness algorithm which WILL be applied on camera captured movies also. In other words, Anime, Fonts and Test Patterns are NOT good test images for sharpness algorithms.
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 16th June 2015 at 16:12. |
16th June 2015, 16:13 | #31148 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 496
|
Quote:
If anyone is against it, please provide some samples. I simply objected to make madVR better for all of us and I hope that people agree that is what we all want. Last edited by iSunrise; 16th June 2015 at 16:19. |
|
16th June 2015, 16:24 | #31149 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,812
|
Dam, it's so cool how 1080p game captures look with high bitrate @WQHD, thanks to FineSharp, super-xbr and SuperRes. I'd almost think it is rendered in realtime in native resolution.
And 60fps aren't any problem performance wise. |
16th June 2015, 17:05 | #31150 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 753
|
Quote:
|
|
16th June 2015, 17:24 | #31151 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 17
|
Quote:
I'll try and report back! Just one question, I deactivated the "how many video frames shall be presented in advance" feature, as I noticed my video was a bit stuttering. I also disabled the Vsync on the nvidia control panel, and everything worked well after that. Is the setting "video frames presented in advance" really useful/important, or can I leave it off instead? |
|
16th June 2015, 17:49 | #31152 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,812
|
Shiandow, do you also take a look at SuperRes' AA/AR with your current SR revision?
Taken my low-res cartoon example, both features can produce some weird artifacts like doubled lines where only one should be. This happens e.g. with super-xbr luma doubling + SR AR or NNEDI luma doubling + SR AA. This is why I have them disabled. Not severe since SR still gives a very decent result when the other parameters are adjusted accordingly, but it'd be nice to have a good anti-ringing filter for super-xbr. |
16th June 2015, 18:03 | #31153 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 78
|
Quote:
Sharpness algorithms are also to compensate for blurring brought by upscaling. This is a really distinct issue with animated content which usually has lots of prominent solid contours encompassing saturated colour gradients. Animation and live action are indeed two very different types of content. So the correct way to tune up sharpness algorithms would be not to sacrifice one of them for the sake of another, but to produce two different sets of corresponding parameters which can be easily switched by toggling some global option with a hotkey. |
|
16th June 2015, 18:03 | #31154 | Link | |||||
Registered Developer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
|
Thanks...
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You should set most/all settings in the NVidia control panel to "application control", so madVR can tell the GPU/driver what it wants. Quote:
|
|||||
16th June 2015, 18:20 | #31155 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 24
|
Some Finesharp settings i found i like on good old live action movies. (for a change :P )
- suggested strength for image enhancement (depends on grain and source quality, 1080p, no upscaling) - 0.4-0.6 low, 0.8-1.0 medium, 1.4-1.6 high (>2.0 ultra) * thinning - 0.010 - 0.020 seems ok - strength for upscaling refinement (720p, s-xbr doubling) - 0.6-0.8 * thinning - 0.000 - 0.005 - any noise or blocking is boosted by a large amount even with the lowest settings - strength for upscaling refinement (SD, s-xbr quading) - <=0.4 * thinning - 0.000 - same as above and even more pronounced s-xbr observations on same content - used NNEDI32/64 for image doubling before trying s-xbr, can't find any reason to go back to NNEDI -_- . s-xbr is faster, sharper and i really can't find major drawbacks for image doubling use. - tried it for chroma uspcaling on SD content and compared to NNEDI64 s-xbr is worse/different??? It's sharper, but there is some strange detail loss in some places. |
16th June 2015, 18:35 | #31156 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 106
|
With D3D11 I do have lower rendering and presentation times. Is this a real performance gain or some pseudo effect like things happening behind madVRs back?
Edit: Clock state stays the same as with D3D9. Last edited by mogli; 17th June 2015 at 06:38. Reason: addendum |
16th June 2015, 19:09 | #31158 | Link | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
|
Quote:
Quote:
I can live with a slightly brighter image, but for anime the ringing and haloing is definitely ugly. After some more testing I can see that above around 1.5, LL shows its bad side around sharp objects. No good for anything but the most blurry images. So once again, I definitely can live without LL with a slightly brighter look with higher sharpening strength. OK, I'll be testing 88.11 Finesharp with the following: Image Enhancements LL Off Repair 1.0 Thinning 0.020 Strength variable I'll try to match a 480 and 720 downscaled images sharpness to the original 1080 one when they are the same size. Not HD but surely closer with Sharpening than without.
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 16th June 2015 at 19:32. |
||
16th June 2015, 19:39 | #31159 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 753
|
Quote:
At least I've managed to prevent SuperRes from introducing any aliasing, so when combined with super-xbr or NEDI you shouldn't need anti-aliasing, which didn't work too well anyway. Oh by the way I think I might know why SuperChromaRes didn't preserve dark lines well. You can lose luma information when clipping out of gamut RGB values, normally this doesn't cause much of a problem but each SuperChromaRes pass will do this again, so the luma will drift even more. If that is the problem then it can be easily fixed, and the new SuperRes revision should also help. |
|
Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|