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Old 11th February 2019, 14:17   #54661  |  Link
Warner306
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But still can't beat the perfect blacks and contrast of an OLED. If burn-in isn't a problem, they are the best panels out there, IMO. Bright LEDs with local dimming have more downsides. It is more a matter of whether tone mapped HDR is satisfying enough to own an HDR display. I think it can be given current content is graded to match these displays.
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Old 11th February 2019, 16:01   #54662  |  Link
svengun
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Originally Posted by actarusfleed View Post
Excuse me guys, a simple question:

For an user forced to use D3D11 hardware decoding .... Isn't possible to put subtitles into viewing area?

Thank you so much
With MPC-BE you can shift them up (I have the same problem

Press: SHIFT+CONTROL + arrow up
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Old 11th February 2019, 16:10   #54663  |  Link
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I still do not have the 4k HDR TV, although I'm reading various forums on the subject to document me, I also want the oled, but it would not be easier to do with madvr the passthrough, so that the tv runs the hdr?
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Old 11th February 2019, 17:43   #54664  |  Link
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But still can't beat the perfect blacks and contrast of an OLED. If burn-in isn't a problem, they are the best panels out there, IMO. Bright LEDs with local dimming have more downsides. It is more a matter of whether tone mapped HDR is satisfying enough to own an HDR display. I think it can be given current content is graded to match these displays.
I'm pretty confident about OLED qualities, especially now that motion through BFI looks to be more configurable.
I was referring to the task of getting HDR content to the TV through madVR, drivers, OS... it seems like we are still very far from fire and forget solutions. And at the end of the day I long for simplicity. I have a TV, it's calibrated to standards, I configure madVR to my likings, I set up custom resolutions to achieve smooth playback. Done.
With HDR there appears to be an extra, heavy, layer of complexity on top of this. Maybe I'll have fun understanding it all but it's looking tougher and tougher, instead of getting simpler.
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Old 11th February 2019, 18:08   #54665  |  Link
madjock
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I'm pretty confident about OLED qualities, especially now that motion through BFI looks to be more configurable.
I was referring to the task of getting HDR content to the TV through madVR, drivers, OS... it seems like we are still very far from fire and forget solutions. And at the end of the day I long for simplicity. I have a TV, it's calibrated to standards, I configure madVR to my likings, I set up custom resolutions to achieve smooth playback. Done.
With HDR there appears to be an extra, heavy, layer of complexity on top of this. Maybe I'll have fun understanding it all but it's looking tougher and tougher, instead of getting simpler.
To be honest that side seems quite easy nowadays, I was concerned as well, but I do not have any issues with the nVidia side in enabling HDR with multiple drivers. I have to set HDR passthrough as my 1050 2GB is not up to par to do the fancy new tone mapping, but if you are up to speed in madVR all you really need to do is select HDR passthrough for ease.

Calibration is another matter though, as its not as simple as getting black and white levels, and if it is I am making hard work in doing this.
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Old 11th February 2019, 18:18   #54666  |  Link
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This seems like an unusually convoluted scaling path. Noticed this upscaling TV content from 576p.

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Old 11th February 2019, 18:52   #54667  |  Link
iSeries
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I do not have any issues with the nVidia side in enabling HDR with multiple drivers.
I've never had any issue enabling HDR either, but the question now is, is the metadata that is being sent correct, or fake...but I guess questions like that belong in the driver thread.
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Old 11th February 2019, 18:58   #54668  |  Link
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I've never had any issue enabling HDR either, but the question now is, is the metadata that is being sent correct, or fake...but I guess questions like that belong in the driver thread.
In all honesty they are messing with multiple numbers and this and that with the latest variant of tone mapping, I watch a film once usually and that it, they are watching the same scenes over and over and over again looking for minute differences in frames.


I just like greens to look green and skin colours to look normal

So whether the metadata is right or wrong, Ive probably messed it all up with the HDR settings I like anyway.
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Old 11th February 2019, 19:03   #54669  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Raimu View Post
This seems like an unusually convoluted scaling path. Noticed this upscaling TV content from 576p.
Yes, I also am seeing something similar on a 1080 screen albeit with fewer steps. The problem is NGU can only double, and (IIRC) SSIM can only scale x and y in the same proportions so if your source is anamorphic like TV, you need another step to do the scaling step from 1,25:1 to 1.78:1

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Originally Posted by madjock View Post
In all honesty they are messing with multiple numbers and this and that with the latest variant of tone mapping, I watch a film once usually and that it, they are watching the same scenes over and over and over again looking for minute differences in frames.

I just like greens to look green and skin colours to look normal
With HDR the issue is not limited to just colours that look correct, tbh. The whole cinematographic effect of some scenes can radically change with bad tonemapping.
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Old 11th February 2019, 19:07   #54670  |  Link
iSeries
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Originally Posted by madjock View Post
In all honesty they are messing with multiple numbers and this and that with the latest variant of tone mapping, I watch a film once usually and that it, they are watching the same scenes over and over and over again looking for minute differences in frames.


I just like greens to look green and skin colours to look normal

So whether the metadata is right or wrong, Ive probably messed it all up with the HDR settings I like anyway.
With passthrough there is nothing that should be messed up, but apparently even when just passing HDR through, nvidia is sending bogus metadata to the TV. So this is (may?) be an issue for all madVR nvidia users, regardless of whether they are using madVR to tonemap (and sending as HDR) or straight passthrough

Last edited by iSeries; 11th February 2019 at 19:24.
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Old 11th February 2019, 19:36   #54671  |  Link
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With HDR the issue is not limited to just colours that look correct, tbh. The whole cinematographic effect of some scenes can radically change with bad tonemapping.
No doubt, but what concerns me is if we/they mess to what they think it should look like, then are they actually seeing what it was meant to be. I am sure like me people read UHD reviews on Bluray.com and the amount that say the colours are this, or uptick in detail here, but how many people actually care what there TV is doing. We are actually buying Blurays or UHDs from reviews when its just a normal TV with no fancy third party application making it perfect ? if there is such a thing and looking at that forum, it is going round in circles with every new clever iteration.
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Old 11th February 2019, 19:37   #54672  |  Link
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With passthrough there is nothing that should be messed up, but apparently even when just passing HDR through, nvidia is sending bogus metadata to the TV. So this is (may?) be an issue for all madVR nvidia users, regardless of whether they are using madVR to tonemap (and sending as HDR) or straight passthrough
I mean from my side with messing with TV settings, so probably make an ass of it myself let alone nVidia
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Old 11th February 2019, 20:07   #54673  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Yes, I also am seeing something similar on a 1080 screen albeit with fewer steps. The problem is NGU can only double, and (IIRC) SSIM can only scale x and y in the same proportions so if your source is anamorphic like TV, you need another step to do the scaling step from 1,25:1 to 1.78:1
Hey, that makes perfect sense. I didn't recall SSIM only does x and y in lockstep. Thank you!
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Old 11th February 2019, 20:46   #54674  |  Link
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No doubt, but what concerns me is if we/they mess to what they think it should look like, then are they actually seeing what it was meant to be. [...] if there is such a thing and looking at that forum, it is going round in circles with every new clever iteration.
I don't see it that way. From reading that thread over at AVS Forum, they are very carefully comparing the results of madVR's tonemapping with what a full range image would/should look like. It's also madshi's stated goal to create processing that gives results that are visually closer to what a full range HDR display would (highlight recovery is a good example). They spend a lot of time testing with and discussing specific scenes, but it's all done in a pretty scientific way IMHO.
Of course anybody is free to ignore that and just use passthrough especially if you have a good HDR display, but if you only own an SDR display that can output high brightness or an HDR display with bad tonemapping, and you want the best picture possible then it's an interesting development and I don't think it's a case of excessive tweaking.
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Old 11th February 2019, 23:07   #54675  |  Link
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This seems like an unusually convoluted scaling path. Noticed this upscaling TV content from 576p.

I would think you Photoshopped that. If not, it just looks ridiculous, to me.
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Old 11th February 2019, 23:13   #54676  |  Link
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I don't see it that way. [...]
Thank you
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Old 11th February 2019, 23:38   #54677  |  Link
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@Manni

Does other apps like HDR 3D games also send wrong metadata or it's only related to madVR?
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If you would like to test it, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Resident Evil 2 have free demos on steam that support HDR.
As far as I can see, once you enable HDR in the OS, it's exactly the same bogus and constant HDR metadata that is sent to the display.

It starts when I enable HDR in the CP, and the metadata remains the same when the game is launched and plays. Of course I've enabled HDR in the game as well, as it was disabled by default.

I couldn't find the demo of RE2 on Steam, but I did find the demo of SOTTB, so that's what I used for testing.

Game isn't a priority so please don't ask for more tests, I'm busy enough with the HDR tonemapping
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Old 12th February 2019, 05:54   #54678  |  Link
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@Raimu
can you do a screen of the full OSD.

madVr did strange things before if up and downscaling is needed at the same time.
but for that i need a full OSD and a sample to reproduce it.
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Old 12th February 2019, 08:05   #54679  |  Link
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I've just got my PC hooked up with my TV and enjoying using MadVR especially on the JVC RS49.

I'd like to use MadVR's tone mapping with my LG C6. I use pixel shaders and pass the image through as HDR to benefit from the higher peak brightness of my TV in HDR.

My question is: Due to the Nvidia/Windows bugs where bogus meta data of 1000/20 is sent; will the internal tone mapper LG has throw off the results of MadVR? If I set the peak nits of my display to 600, LG's tone mapper should be bypassed as MadVR will report all content as 600 nits or below. But if the OS is saying it's 1000 nits - it'll be applying its own curve?
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Old 12th February 2019, 08:44   #54680  |  Link
madjock
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I've just got my PC hooked up with my TV and enjoying using MadVR especially on the JVC RS49.

I'd like to use MadVR's tone mapping with my LG C6. I use pixel shaders and pass the image through as HDR to benefit from the higher peak brightness of my TV in HDR.

My question is: Due to the Nvidia/Windows bugs where bogus meta data of 1000/20 is sent; will the internal tone mapper LG has throw off the results of MadVR? If I set the peak nits of my display to 600, LG's tone mapper should be bypassed as MadVR will report all content as 600 nits or below. But if the OS is saying it's 1000 nits - it'll be applying its own curve?
You could use the drivers it works on 385.28 (using them now). But I have to say this metadata thing news is news to me, I have tried to find other information, and have found the odd quote.

But for some reason in all the guides in using madVR and the likes, there is no mention of use this or this driver for HDR (due to metadata) so it seems like its a well known problem (or is it) thats just getting talked about again ?

https://forums.geforce.com/default/t...data/?offset=2

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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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