Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st September 2020, 19:42   #60221  |  Link
chros
Registered User
 
chros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,817
Yes, and if you can wait couple of months until the new gen mid range will be released then they will be even cheaper.
__________________
Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v442.92),Win10 LTSC 1809,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED65B8(2160p@23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz) | madvr config
chros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2020, 00:46   #60222  |  Link
CZ Eddie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 40
I need a card now because this is for my NCAA football watching setup out in the garage, which handles the whole-house audio & video also.
Ended up buying a PNY GTX 1060 6GB for $140.
More than I wanted to spend, but it was the best deal I could find on eBay at that moment.
The 960's were about $110 but I figured it was worth it to spend $30 more on a 1060 to get HEVC decoding in case I need it for next year when ATSC 3.0 (4K OTA) hits my area.

Now I can button up the garage build by this weekend and go back to working on more productive projects.

hook 'em horns!

Last edited by CZ Eddie; 22nd September 2020 at 00:50.
CZ Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 01:42   #60223  |  Link
Ilovetv9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Rookie here, need some help. I'm trying to watch some .mpg files that are "Top Field First" "interlaced video" according to mediainfo. When watching those same files in vlc and turning on deinterlace, vlc properly deinterlaces the video and it plays very smooth like it should. But when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters it does not deinterlace properly. I have my settings set up like this - mpc-be video decoder configuration scan type = progressive. In lav filters settings - deinterlacing mode = disabled (progressive). In madvr settings - I turn on deinterlace film mode or video mode, neither does any deinterlacing. And if I try to use mpc-be deinterlacer or lav filters deinterlacer, both fail at deinterlacing the video, just like madvr is. What am I doing wrong? VLC does it properly, but I prefer to use mpc-be+madvr+lav filters because it plays all videos in better quality. How can I deinterlace these .mpg video files properly with mpc-be+madvr+lav filters? Please and thanks for any help.
Ilovetv9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 02:53   #60224  |  Link
Ilovetv9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Doing a little more testing with mpc-hc. I realized, when I disable madvr and use the system default, then the deinterlacing works like it should. But when I enable madvr and try to deinterlace, it will not deinterlace. Why is this happening?
Ilovetv9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 05:43   #60225  |  Link
VBB
Registered User
 
VBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 346
You're probably using DXVA2 or D3D11 native GPU decoding. Switch to copy-back in LAV filters, and it should work.
__________________
Henry

LG OLED65C7P | Denon AVR-X3500H | ELAC Uni-Fi x7 | ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3030 x2
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 | LAV Filters | madVR | MPC-HC | Plex | X-Rite i1Display Pro | DisplayCAL | HCFR
VBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 15:48   #60226  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovetv9 View Post
I'm trying to watch some .mpg files that are "Top Field First" "interlaced video" according to mediainfo.
Can you give more information on the source? DVD, camcorder, TV recording? This is 25 fps, right?
Quote:
I have my settings set up like this - mpc-be video decoder configuration scan type = progressive. In lav filters settings - deinterlacing mode = disabled (progressive).
Well this is wrong because it sends the frames to the render as progressive, i.e. not interlaced, so madVR won't even try to deinterlace because the decoder tells it doesn't have to.
Set Deinterlacing Mode/scan type to Auto, choose DXVA2 copyback as decoder (just to be sure), and disable LAV software deinterlacing.
Quote:
In madvr settings - I turn on deinterlace film mode or video mode, neither does any deinterlacing.
Can you confirm you're seeing interlacing (combing) artifacts in the scenario where you're saying it doesn't work?
In madVR settings, check "automatically activate deinterlacing when needed", uncheck "disable automatic source type detection" (i.e. the options "force film/video mode" should be greyed out. Then it should deinterlace. If it still doesn't, please link to a screenshot of the madVR OSD during playback (Ctrl+J), post it to an image hosting site.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1909, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 21:37   #60227  |  Link
Ilovetv9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Can you give more information on the source? DVD, camcorder, TV recording? This is 25 fps, right?Well this is wrong because it sends the frames to the render as progressive, i.e. not interlaced, so madVR won't even try to deinterlace because the decoder tells it doesn't have to.
Set Deinterlacing Mode/scan type to Auto, choose DXVA2 copyback as decoder (just to be sure), and disable LAV software deinterlacing.Can you confirm you're seeing interlacing (combing) artifacts in the scenario where you're saying it doesn't work?
In madVR settings, check "automatically activate deinterlacing when needed", uncheck "disable automatic source type detection" (i.e. the options "force film/video mode" should be greyed out. Then it should deinterlace. If it still doesn't, please link to a screenshot of the madVR OSD during playback (Ctrl+J), post it to an image hosting site.
Hey. Thanks so much for the help. Here is a link to a .mpg file that didn't deinterlace properly for me with madvr+lav filters enabled in mpc-be.

Link - https://archive.org/download/the-all...20-%201x01.mpg

In lav filters settings I changed what you said to - Deinterlacing Mode/scan type to Auto, and hardware decoder to use - DXVA2 copyback. And that did fix my problem and it deinterlaced when I enabled madvr deinterlacer video mode.

About 50% of interlaced videos will properly deinterlace for me when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters, but some (like the one I posted) does not deinterlace. I thought I remember reading that you are not supposed to use more than 1 deinterlacer when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters becuase that is redundant and will worsen the quality as you are only supposed to use 1 deinterlacer to keep maximum quality. Is that wrong and I need to always use lav filters deinterlacer and madvr deinterlacer at the same time? Do I always have to use one of the hardware decoders in lav filters settings to deinterlace these types of videos properly? Next to hardware decoder setting there are resolutions sd hd. Hd was checked automatically, should I also check sd for the best possible quality? Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be sure I'm maintaining highest possible quality when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters and deinterlacing.
Ilovetv9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2020, 19:02   #60228  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,654
the trick is simple you make sure that lavfilter settings are left at default so it can say "hey look madVR this file is interlaced"
this works as long as d3d11 native is not used madVR will fully automatically deint every video that is flagged as interlaced.

lavfilter only deint when you actives one of the present deint option and is capable of doing so (doesn't work with native decoder) and if lavfilter is using deint madVR isn't going to deint because it will tell madVR that the file is progressive.
as long as you are not changing the deint settings on the left.
it's not applied 2 times.

edit: you don't use an AMD card by any chance aren't you?

Last edited by huhn; 24th September 2020 at 19:40.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2020, 20:33   #60229  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovetv9 View Post
About 50% of interlaced videos will properly deinterlace for me when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters, but some (like the one I posted) does not deinterlace.
I've looked at that file with DXVA deinterlacing on both a GeForce and a Radeon and it seems like it's mixed material, i.e. some parts are sourced from film and others from video, so it cannot be deinterlaced all the time as it's not video all the time. What often happened in the old days was outside scenes were shot on film, and inside scenes were shot on video. If you look for example at around 12:00 when it transitions from a street scene to a studio scene, the scene in the street is using 2:2 film cadence, while the studio scene is using 50i video (if you pause in MPC and use Ctrl+right key you can frame-skip and see the individual frames). If you disable deinterlacing (Shift+Ctrl+Alt+D until you see it says off), you can see the scene shot outside still has clear motion (well, as clear as a composite video recording from that time can look anyway ), while the following scene in the studio suddenly has a load of combing artifacts on motion.
Quote:
I thought I remember reading that you are not supposed to use more than 1 deinterlacer when using mpc-be+madvr+lav filters becuase that is redundant and will worsen the quality as you are only supposed to use 1 deinterlacer to keep maximum quality. Is that wrong and I need to always use lav filters deinterlacer and madvr deinterlacer at the same time?
As huhn explained, you can't deinterlace an image two times, so there's no risk. However, your quality (and performance) will be determined by the deinterlacer that runs first, so the one in the decoder if it can run. The best way is usually to let madVR handle it, so not enable deinterlacing in LAV.
Quote:
Do I always have to use one of the hardware decoders in lav filters settings to deinterlace these types of videos properly?
Not necessarily, you can also use software decoding and madVR will deinterlace the image using hardware as long as you set the Deinterlacing Mode setting to Auto.
To check that madVR is deinterlacing, press Ctrl+J to bring up the OSD and find the line that says "deinterlacing" (it should be just above the queue stats): it should say "on (says upstream)".
Quote:
Next to hardware decoder setting there are resolutions sd hd. Hd was checked automatically, should I also check sd for the best possible quality?
That doesn't control deinterlacing, only if hardware decode is used for specific resolutions. You can check SD if you want, it shouldn't cause problems but SD video is very easy to decode by the CPU especially MPEG2, so it wouldn't make a lot of difference in performance.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1909, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2020, 21:24   #60230  |  Link
Ilovetv9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
edit: you don't use an AMD card by any chance aren't you?
Yes. My computer's video card is a - amd radeon hd 8330. (super old I know I need to upgrade lol)

But thank you very much huhn & el Filou for the help and advice. I will test and tweak the different settings you guys suggested. I am very grateful. And super happy to finally be able to watch old analog interlaced videos in the best possible quality on my computer.
Ilovetv9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2020, 22:03   #60231  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,654
this old card with relative old driver should have one of the best hardware deinterlacer out there.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2020, 18:31   #60232  |  Link
CZ Eddie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 40
Can anyone help for my broadcast TV setup?

Which is the best Lav video setting for watching nothing but 720P and 1080i broadcast TV on a 1080P TV with an older GTX 1060 GPU on an 8GB 3Ghz quad-core system?

I thought it might be D3D11, but then I read that D3D11 Native does not support interlacing.
And 1080i is most of what I'd be watching on this particular setup.

Also, what are some of the better MadVR settings to try for cleaning up broadcast TV artifacts and make things look more clear?
CZ Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th September 2020, 20:33   #60233  |  Link
CZ Eddie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post
Can anyone help for my broadcast TV setup?

Which is the best Lav video setting for watching nothing but 720P and 1080i broadcast TV on a 1080P TV with an older GTX 1060 GPU on an 8GB 3Ghz quad-core system?
Hmm, I just ran through most of the Lav decoder options while watching FOX football via JRiver.
And none seemed to have any affect on my MadVR rendering ms.
Didn't really notice any obvious video quality differences either.
Though FOX 720P OTA football games is not a very good quality source to begin with.

The artifacts on my 2019 $700 cheapo LG 75" 4K football-watching TV are pretty crazy and I'm on a mission to clean them up if possible.
CZ Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2020, 12:29   #60234  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 671
DXVA2 Native gives blurred chroma on NVIDIA cards, so to get the best quality other decoding options are better.
If you only watch HD I would use DXVA2 Copyback (it gives deinterlacing artefacts with 576i on my setup, but not with 1080i), or even software. Try to compare both while watching CPU and GPU clocks and %age utilization, software will use the CPU more but H.264 L4.0 is really easy to decode on a modern CPU, DXVA Copyback will use the GPU slightly more with madVR but with 720p/1080i it should be hardly noticeable.

You say you're watching on a 1080p TV but then you talk about a 4K 75" one? Which is it?

madVR has "reduce compression artifacts" (in processing => artifact removal), which is self-explanatory. If you use it in combination with NGU sharp you also gain some processing time.
I've found that with HDTV, "reduce banding" is useful too, I use it at low setting, and previously when my cable provider was stuffing too many channels on each mux sometimes I had to push it to medium (I mapped it to a keyboard shortcut and only increase it when I notice too obvious banding in the content I'm watching).
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1909, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2020, 16:04   #60235  |  Link
Alexkral
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
If you only watch HD I would use DXVA2 Copyback (it gives deinterlacing artefacts with 576i on my setup, but not with 1080i), or even software.
Is there any reason why you don't even consider CUVID?
__________________
AviSynth AiUpscale
Alexkral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2020, 16:30   #60236  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,654
currently doesn't add anything over DXVA2 copyback and forces your GPU to maximum performance pstate.

there was even a consideration to remove it a long time ago. a new mode was shared as an idea no clue what is currently planned so don't take this as up to date.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2020, 18:10   #60237  |  Link
CZ Eddie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
If you only watch HD I would use DXVA2 Copyback (it gives deinterlacing artefacts with 576i on my setup, but not with 1080i), or even software.
Hmm, okay thanks. I will focus my attention on testing those two specifically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Try to compare both while watching CPU and GPU clocks and %age utilization, software will use the CPU more but H.264 L4.0 is really easy to decode on a modern CPU, DXVA Copyback will use the GPU slightly more with madVR but with 720p/1080i it should be hardly noticeable.
I was only looking at rendering ms but this is a good suggestion.
Huhn recommended GPU-Z in another thread to somebody. Mabye I'll try that software.


Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
You say you're watching on a 1080p TV but then you talk about a 4K 75" one? Which is it?
The 4K TV is my primary TV but I am running my HTPC at 1080P, not 2160P.
I'd rather spend all my processing power on cleaning up the crappy OTA image than upconverting to 4K.
Sometimes OTA looks really good and clean, but much of the time it's full of various artifacts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
madVR has "reduce compression artifacts" (in processing => artifact removal), which is self-explanatory.
Yep, was hoping for some guidance on those options (and where they can help) and anything else that might help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
If you use it in combination with NGU sharp you also gain some processing time.
What does "gain some processing time" mean? Are you saying it consumes more GPU processing power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
I've found that with HDTV, "reduce banding" is useful too, I use it at low setting, and previously when my cable provider was stuffing too many channels on each mux sometimes I had to push it to medium
Thanks for the tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
I mapped it to a keyboard shortcut and only increase it when I notice too obvious banding in the content I'm watching.
I really need to sit down and configure keyboard shortcuts to my remote control.

Last edited by CZ Eddie; 28th September 2020 at 18:13.
CZ Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2020, 22:10   #60238  |  Link
Ilovetv9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
[QUOTE=huhn;1924256]the trick is simple you make sure that lavfilter settings are left at default so it can say "hey look madVR this file is interlaced"
this works as long as d3d11 native is not used madVR will fully automatically deint every video that is flagged as interlaced.

For best possible video quality when using madvr+lav filters, which should I choose of the 5 options in my hardware decoder list?
- nvidia cuvid, intel quicksync, dxva2 copy back, dxva2 native or d3d11

Are you saying madvr cannot automatically deinterlace if I choose d3d11? I thought it's always better to not automatic deinterlace because sometimes videos are flagged incorrectly as interlaced and it's always best to use your own eyes to determine, so I always try to keep the interlaced settings as progressive, unless I know the video needs to be deinterlaced, then I turn on auto, then enable madvr deinterlacer. Am I correct?
Ilovetv9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28th September 2020, 22:35   #60239  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,654
just leave it at auto and d3d11 will never do deint it can't do it with madVR madshi never implemented it.

you can just toggle deint with control+alt+shift+d no need to change lavfilter settings.

just stick to DXVA2 copyback it really doesn't matter that much.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2020, 16:52   #60240  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post
Yep, was hoping for some guidance on those options (and where they can help) and anything else that might help.
Can't really help with RCA sorry, as I don't use it on my HTPC with the plasma already masking some artefacts up to a point, and I don't enable it on my desktop for other reasons. I suggest experimenting, like starting with a low level and increasing progressively until you find artefacts don't really bother you anymore.
Quote:
What does "gain some processing time" mean? Are you saying it consumes more GPU processing power?
No, the opposite actually, but only if you also use NGU Sharp at the same time. IIRC, due to the way the two algorithms works madVR can combine steps used in both and it doesn't cost much more processing power to do NGU Sharp + RCA than NGU Sharp used alone.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1909, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.