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Old 24th January 2020, 23:05   #58441  |  Link
VBB
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But I'm not even bringing up 10-bit. You did I wholeheartedly agree that madVR's 8-bit dithering is indistinguishable from 10-bit. It was merely a coincidence that I found the best mode for me happens to be 10-bit. I would have happily picked 8-bit if it was better in this case.
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Old 24th January 2020, 23:15   #58442  |  Link
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This was a discussion in response to nsnhd about turning off dithering and noticing that 10 bit was smoother than 8 bit and thinking that it meant something.

Edit: You decided YCbCr 10 bit 422 looked better than YCbCr 8 bit 422 with dithering disabled or enabled? There is an implicit choice between 8 and 10 bit in your preferred mode.
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Old 24th January 2020, 23:21   #58443  |  Link
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@mclingo, thank you for the explanation, I'm going to read links
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Old 24th January 2020, 23:40   #58444  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
This was a discussion in response to nsnhd about turning off dithering and noticing that 10 bit was smoother than 8 bit and thinking that it meant something.

Edit: You decided YCbCr 10 bit 422 looked better than YCbCr 8 bit 422 with dithering disabled or enabled? There is an implicit choice between 8 and 10 bit in your preferred mode.
That's why I said in response to nsnhd's post that there is no good way to test for bit depth. Instead, you can test for banding. And again, my final choice for using 10-bit wasn't based purely on bit depth, but with 4:2:2, 10-bit is banding-free while 8-bit is far from it. I did not find the same to be true using any other combo. 8-bit always wins (compared to 12-bit, when there is a choice).

Maybe I should rephrase: When testing for banding, whether you do it with or without dithering, your final choice should always be based on what looks best the way you actually watch it: with dithering enabled.
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Old 25th January 2020, 00:54   #58445  |  Link
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Ok, totally agree.

But I still think testing with madVR's and/or the GPU's dithering disabled is pointless, except academically.
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Old 25th January 2020, 05:44   #58446  |  Link
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After your discussions I've redone the testing, from now on madVR's dithering is always enabled (Ordered Dithering).
When GPU output is set to 10bit RGB Full in NCP, no difference between 8bit/10bit outputs from madVR FSW can be seen by playing gradient files.
But, when GPU is set to 8bit and of course madVR output FSW also changed to 8bit, I can now see more banding compared to the above 10bit GPU setting.

So, what can I know about my monitor now, or still nothing ?
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Old 25th January 2020, 06:47   #58447  |  Link
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if the test is done correctly this would mean your screen is incorrectly handling 8 bit input so it will add additional banding for pretty much every application.

the current stable version of madVR shouldn't stop you from sending 10 bit even when the GPU is set to 8 bit output actually there is quite a good reason to still do that but i guess madshi wants to work around an nvidia driver bug i haven't checked in a log time.

you should use full screen exclusive for this test and not windowed full screen because WFS is know to produce a lot of banding when the GPU outputs 8 bit but get's a 10 bit input.
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Old 25th January 2020, 10:59   #58448  |  Link
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I've noticed with 23.976 HDR content played back at 23.976 sections of the screen are extra blurry (almost like they are pulsating/flickering) when panning (eg. fence or branches/leaves on a tree in background). If I play back at 59.940 (with smooth motion off - with it on the issue is still there) this almost goes away.

If I turn off HDR (tone map hdr using pixel shaders), this issue is completely gone at any frame rate and with or without smooth motion.

This happens even after restoring default madvr settings.

Last edited by glc650; 25th January 2020 at 11:04.
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