madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

Originally Posted by XTrojan

Because it's not a SBS encoding, it's a remux that's 2D but contains a MVC stream. I haven't checked newest MadVR, but I thought you needed SBS encoding for it to work? Can MadVR render the 2D and MVC streams seperate on right/left without engaging frame-packed mode but letting the TV do it?

Yes. If the decoder sends 3D to madVR, and if you have 3D enabled in madVR, then madVR tries to do frame packed rendering. If that doesn't work, madVR renders this MVC-MKV as side-by-side. It was this way right from v0.90.0.

Originally Posted by XTrojan

And no 1080p sets can't playback 3D content without cutting resolution in half, making it look bad, frame-packing is still the goto for 1080p TV sets and only mode without degrading picture quality, Personally I just dislike frame-packing due to compability issues and buggyness of external content such as subtitles.

It seems to me you haven't actually tested any of this yet with madVR. So please do, and then report your findings. As far as I can see, there should be zero difference between frame packed and side-by-side rendering when using madVR. madVR always draws subtitles and OSD on both left and right eye views in the same way.

Originally Posted by sneaker_ger

madVR's 3D mode currently only works with mvc-in-mkv, nothing else. It does not work with side-by-side or top-bottom encoding. madVR will output said mvc-in-mkv as side-by-side over HDMI (that's the way 3D works for HDMI).

Frame packed is somewhat different to side-by-side. I think frame packed does transport the images as some sort of side-by-side, but I think there's a gap between the left/right eye images.

[sneaker_ger]

I stand corrected. Always thought HDMI 3D is side-by-side only but wiki confirms top-bottom and frame-packed are possible as well.

[huhn]

madVR can output it as side by side too.

frame packing isn't side by side.

so the current madVR version can do both.

when 3d is enabled in madVR and in the OS you get frame packing 3D.

when 3d is enabled in madVR and disabled in the OS you get side by side.

[CarlosCaco]

I having a strange problem, if upscale a 720p video to 1366x768p monitor none of my upscaling refinements is activated, i don´t see the effects on image e and OSD don´t show any changes on reders times, on others versions below 89.19 this issue don´t happen

[omarank]

Originally Posted by madshi

Oh ok. I guess I didn't understand how passive 3D works. So basically you're saying that a passive 3D TV when looked at without glasses has lines 1, 3 and 5 for left eye and lines 2, 4 and 6 for right eye? So I would simply render as if it were 2D and the TV wouldn't even have to know that I'm sending 3D, the user would simply put on his glasses and that's all?

Yes, right.

Before you implement these 3D methods, I would suggest to create a test build which outputs any one type, say Row Interlaced, and get the 3D output tested by users having the same type of Passive TV. Maybe Aleksoid1978 can help in the testing.

[jmone]

Originally Posted by madshi

When you force D3D11 in the madVR settings, do you see anything at all, before it crashes? E.g. if you enable the OSD (Ctrl+J) before activating D3D11 mode, do you see the OSD for a short time before the crash? If so, please let me know which refresh rate the OSD lists. Is it near to 23.976? Or is it near to 47.952?

It is in 23.976 and one static SBS Image. Log at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...3D%20Crash.zip

[Prinz]

Originally Posted by madshi

Oh ok. I guess I didn't understand how passive 3D works. So basically you're saying that a passive 3D TV when looked at without glasses has lines 1, 3 and 5 for left eye and lines 2, 4 and 6 for right eye? So I would simply render as if it were 2D and the TV wouldn't even have to know that I'm sending 3D, the user would simply put on his glasses and that's all?

Implementing that should be relatively easy.

One thing to add: 4K TV's with passive 3D can show full 1080p resolution this way, because they have double the lines of 1080p.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Do 4k TVs with passive 3D have polarization filters applied as a coating, alternating between columns? Otherwise, I wonder how glasses would know which lines to show.

[Manni]

Originally Posted by madshi

Is it a constant delay? E.g. exactly one frame? Or does the delay differ sometimes, from movie to movie, or even from frame to frame? If it's a constant delay then it shouldn't be too hard to implement an option to delay one eye by 1-3 frames or so.

I can't say if the delay is constant or not. The way it's best described is in the thread I already linked to a couple of times. 3D is fine on static shot and gets wrong with motion due to the delay between the two eyes.

Can you reproduce this on your AMD rig? We have the same OS (Win 8.1), so you should have the same issue. If you don't, please give details of drivers, etc.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by Prinz

One thing to add: 4K TV's with passive 3D can show full 1080p resolution this way, because they have double the lines of 1080p.

True, but they need to receive frame packed 3D, otherwise they never get the full resolution video. 1920x2160 or 3840x1080 input is not going to work.

Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes

Do 4k TVs with passive 3D have polarization filters applied as a coating, alternating between columns? Otherwise, I wonder how glasses would know which lines to show.

Yes, different rotational polarizations are usually used, I believe.

[Prinz]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

True, but they need to receive frame packed 3D, otherwise they never get the full resolution video. 1920x2160 or 3840x1080 input is not going to work.

As far as I understand we are speaking of not telling the TV that it's 3D, instead sending it as 2D with interleaved lines. So madVR does what the TV would do. And in this case madVR could send the full 1080p 3D to a 4K passive TV in normal 3840x2160p resolution with interleaved Pictures.

[6233638]

Originally Posted by madshi

Where did we do the previous discussion about this? In the bug tracker? I don't remember the conclusion of the our previous discussion, so I'm not sure right now if this behaviour is as intended or not.

I had a chance to look this up, and it seems that I was mistaken - the behavior I saw with the "wrong" profile being selected is actually working as intended.
http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=349

The srcHeight/Width behavior was only changed for Zoom Control profiles (since that actually broke things) and not all profiles.
It's not what I would personally prefer, but I think your decision to handle it this way does make sense, so I'll keep using uncroppedSrcHeight/Width for the affected profiles.

[Aleksoid1978]

Originally Posted by madshi

So basically you're saying that a passive 3D TV when looked at without glasses has lines 1, 3 and 5 for left eye and lines 2, 4 and 6 for right eye? So I would simply render as if it were 2D and the TV wouldn't even have to know that I'm sending 3D, the user would simply put on his glasses and that's all?

Implementing that should be relatively easy.

I think you are right. You can try render as usually 2D picture and alternate lines for the left and right eyes(1 - left, 2 - right, 3 - left, 4 - right and so on.) Passive TV must from such image do 3D in half resolution for height(1080 -> 540).

You can try make test build - and i check it on my TV.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by madshi

Oh ok. I guess I didn't understand how passive 3D works. So basically you're saying that a passive 3D TV when looked at without glasses has lines 1, 3 and 5 for left eye and lines 2, 4 and 6 for right eye? So I would simply render as if it were 2D and the TV wouldn't even have to know that I'm sending 3D, the user would simply put on his glasses and that's all?

Implementing that should be relatively easy.

@Aleksoid1978, would that do the trick for your TV?

this may work but what the TV is subsampling. after that there is nothing worth calling 3D/in the chroma channel.

this issue doesn't exist with top bottom and side by side.

[omarank]

Originally Posted by huhn

this may work but what the TV is subsampling. after that there is nothing worth calling 3D/in the chroma channel.

this issue doesn't exist with top bottom and side by side.

PC mode, Game mode or Graphics mode, which doesn’t downsample chroma, can be used in the TV. 3D output this way should still be better, rather much better, than after the unnecessary processing done by the TV when its 3D processing engine is active.

Row/ Column Interleaved output is anyway going to be optional in the settings. Passive TV users can always use frame packed 3D output to compare and decide which output method they like the most.

Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes

Do 4k TVs with passive 3D have polarization filters applied as a coating, alternating between columns? Otherwise, I wonder how glasses would know which lines to show.

Yes, not only just 4K Passive TVs, all Passive 3D TVs have a special coating which, for example in case of Row Interleaved Type, polarizes the light coming from odd lines in one way and from even lines in the opposite way. Passive 3D glasses have corresponding polarization filters which ensure that one eye sees just the odd lines and the other eye sees the even lines only. As the odd lines comprise View 1 and even lines View 2, the user gets 3D vision when they put on the Passive glasses.

[apgood]

Originally Posted by Manni

Thanks. Did you check with say chapter 2 of Gravity that the depth was correct? For example, when they circle around each other in space, is the depth correct for each of them and the rope/tether?

Haven't converted Gravity to mkv yet but PAN and hobbit unexpected journey. The 3D layers look correct and there are no out of sequence frames or anything like that.

[4h4h270]

frame drop is from reclock, disabled, everything goes fine.

-----------------

I have a problem, I always get 1 frame drop every 30+sec, I checked with gpu-z the load is only 40%~50%.
I tried lighter algorithm and raise every quene size, nothing changed.

[aufkrawall]

Do you have also drops with other renderers? I'd try EVR CP of MPC HC and display rendertime graphs with ctrl + j.

[apgood]

Originally Posted by madshi

Sounds good. Try a few different movies. It's possible that the eye swapping depends on the movie. If that's the case, either MakeMKV or LAV need a minor fix/update to solve that issue.

Only got 2 3D movies in mkv (rest still in iso format), but tested them in Mede8er as well and they need the eye swapping setting set there as well, so I suspect it might be something in MakeMKV that I did when I created them.

If I get a chance I'll try creating some more to see (and make sure I'm running the latest version of MakeMKV).

[foozoor]

Does madVR use image doubling with DVXA image upscaling?
In the OSD, I see chroma > DVXA and image > DVXA.