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Old 6th November 2018, 15:50   #53581  |  Link
huhn
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@Ampallang
https://abload.de/img/outputformatu8ej2.png

@HDR
Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk

the problem is you can't easily cheap out on HDR settings like other settings.

and because you are so into a 960 2GB can you go make a screen with a file that has subtitles that use madVR subtitle API and up scale it to UHD with NGU high?
and because of this comment:
Quote:
If you actually cared about quality you'd have a 4k OLED by now. But you don't, so you like to argue on the internet to justify your purchases.
don't forget the 3D LUT there is no way someone caring about image quality doesn't have/use that too.

this is "doable" with a 960 but good luck.

and about the topic what people need and what not you can kill every card with upscale refinement or super sampling. does this mean i agree with that no but i'm not going to say you don't need that only that i disagree with that.

if you think someone is wasting his money on a more powerful card ask him what he wants todo with that don't tell him you are wasting your money.
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Old 6th November 2018, 16:12   #53582  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDR View Post
1080p->2160p NGU Sharp High gets 19ms on a 960.


Sorry, but this is placebo. Even madshi agrees.
very high wasn't placebo, to me. So I don't agree. The picture is pretty sharp, as sharp as you'd ever want it.

Last edited by Warner306; 6th November 2018 at 16:14.
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Old 6th November 2018, 16:34   #53583  |  Link
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@huhn many Thanks same here but when I check the signal and compare it with the oppo Grey and color ramps looks very different also the input signal tells different on a gtx 960.

@hdr could you share me per on here directly maybe some settings and profiles I now use the recommendation of Warner and Improve the settings to my machine and content. But still have the feeling to be fare away from the edge of what can be possible.

Will run some lut today and will analyze files for dynamic hdr. Will be interesting if it will be working in 4gb 960. Spottet 1070ti prices drops. So maybe end of the year I will buy one or vega. So far lucky with the 960 try to get more experience on the hdr tonemapping via madvr and without TV. Hopefully tomorrow evening I can compare.
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Old 6th November 2018, 16:51   #53584  |  Link
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@HDR
Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk

the problem is you can't easily cheap out on HDR settings like other settings.
I just bought this movie and tried it last night for the first time on my 1060 6gb. I CAN NOT get it to play properly with HDR tone mapping enabled. I can get it to play with passthrough, but, even then I have to compromise on my normal settings. Anyone saying that it's a waste to buy more powerful cards....I can tell you that's a very personal decision and not worth arguing about. I quite frankly wish I had a 1070 or 1080 right now because I will not be able to reliably do 60FPS 4K content on my 1060....not at the settings I want to use, anyway.
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Old 6th November 2018, 16:53   #53585  |  Link
huhn
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i don't know what an oppo grey has to do with that and please be more precise.
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Old 6th November 2018, 17:59   #53586  |  Link
Ampallang
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Greyscale and color ramps on oppo looks different than with gtx 960. On oppo it is much smoother as I can see on other bigger cards than gtx 960. So I guess the gtx 960 is limited to this. But the 960 makes a great job so far but I didn't tried the tonemapping just sdr lut and upscaling.
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Old 6th November 2018, 18:07   #53587  |  Link
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what have bigger cards to do with this and how do you even do a fair test for this?
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Old 6th November 2018, 20:55   #53588  |  Link
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Why is NGU better regarded than Jinc when there's the added addition of "other artifacts"?
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Old 6th November 2018, 21:03   #53589  |  Link
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Just a ramble here fwiw.

I've been using an EVGA full sized dual fan GTX 960 4GB card for years. I feed it to a 4k display. I don't care about downscaling so I set to the lowest Bicubic60. I've found 4k HDR titles don't require any heavy duty processing to make them come to life however I use AA medium which is more than enough chroma imo. I've used higher chroma that taxes the system and I compare. I don't see a difference tbh. I assume by pixel peeping there is a difference but my eyes simply don't see it when just watching the movie. I have no anime interests fwiw. I could use higher but with my old CPU, I don't want to hear the fan spin faster because it's tied into the processing too and I can't justify taxing the CPU for no gain in what I see. I guess it saves the GPU load too and why I've never had a problem with it. Lowering madVR settings eases CPU processing for me. I don't need to trade off any quality to increase performance.

I only use highest quality 1:1 iso rips for just about everything in my library. SDR, HDR, 3D, etc. Low resolutions to 2160p benefit using madVR to give em' a kick in the pants and the improvement is noticeable. This isn't to say I don't use some junk rips also. Junk rips absolutely require madVR or they look like the junk that they are. Period. Imo, this is the only thing that makes OLED displays shine. They are great at making junk sources look decent. But madVR does equally as good a job if not better. madVR doesn't apply for broadcast TV or anything else that can't be processed outside the displays own logic though. madVR can't cure them so the display must... or stay away from this junk and pray media isn't killed off and replaced with streams. TV broadcast, Hulu, Netflix, etc. benefit because they are no where near the actual quality of the original source we use madVR for unless bandwidth increases magically by leaps and bounds someday. Jeesh, an HDMI cable over 6' already introduces problems with actual high bitrate content at 4k. Imagine the 8k hurdles on the horizon. I've no idea yet but then and only then do I feel I might need to upgrade this GTX 960 because so far... so good.
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Old 6th November 2018, 21:21   #53590  |  Link
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@brazen: MadVR can apply to broadcast TV if you use a tuner card in a PC instead of TV's tuners.
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Old 6th November 2018, 21:27   #53591  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post
Why is NGU better regarded than Jinc when there's the added addition of "other artifacts"?
NGU AA would be one the that's most comparable to Jinc in sharpness. You will not notice any artifacts in viewing its just the nature of these upscalers creating a approximate reproduction upscale. NGU doubles or quadruples the picture potentially allowing you to downscale and keep this reconstructed detail also. It's preferable depending on your tastes and settings, I use both for different content. As always just see what you prefer.
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Old 6th November 2018, 21:28   #53592  |  Link
huhn
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Why is NGU better regarded than Jinc when there's the added addition of "other artifacts"?
because it is generally better.
there are some cases where NGU sharp fails that is hard compressed files. while jinc only fails with what was it pixelart. it's a relative simple algorithm in comparison to NGU which can go wrong.

these rating bars lost quite some use i'm mean madshi didn't even bother to change them between soft, standard, sharp and AA and they clearly don't have the same sharpness.
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Old 6th November 2018, 21:32   #53593  |  Link
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Quote:
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because it is generally better.
there are some cases where NGU sharp fails that is hard compressed files. while jinc only fails with what was it pixelart. it's a relative simple algorithm in comparison to NGU which can go wrong.

these rating bars lost quite some use i'm mean madshi didn't even bother to change them between soft, standard, sharp and AA and they clearly don't have the same sharpness.
It would be good, if we could see each NGU sharpness level.
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Old 6th November 2018, 21:36   #53594  |  Link
huhn
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these number bars are not so help IMO anyway.

i never select a scaler depending on these bars i selected it on the results.

and i wouldn't be shocked if madshi removes standard and soft just to see how many even care.
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Old 6th November 2018, 21:53   #53595  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
these number bars are not so help IMO anyway.

i never select a scaler depending on these bars i selected it on the results.

and i wouldn't be shocked if madshi removes standard and soft just to see how many even care.
I kinda like NGU Standart, NGU Sharp seems kinda artificial to me, never used NGU Soft.
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Old 6th November 2018, 22:14   #53596  |  Link
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Yeah I think the plan was to remove those bars, also NGU soft probably won't be missed.

NGU sharp is very nice, probably looks best when downscaling it, so probably not so useful for 4k screen owners, I don't use it with much of any other sharpening but it looks great on my screen on 720 and 1080 content that I'm okay having it chew a total of 30ms on my GeForce 1080 in combination with SSIM 2D.

Last edited by ryrynz; 6th November 2018 at 23:55.
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Old 7th November 2018, 02:54   #53597  |  Link
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I kinda like NGU Standart, NGU Sharp seems kinda artificial to me, never used NGU Soft.
NGU Soft is quite useful for 720p -> 1080p upscaling, it looks more natural than NGU Standard.

Hope madVR can keep NGU Soft in the future versions.
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Old 7th November 2018, 04:19   #53598  |  Link
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NGU sharp is very nice, probably looks best when downscaling it, so probably not so useful for 4k screen owners, I don't use it with much of any other sharpening but it looks great on my screen on 720 and 1080 content that I'm okay having it chew a total of 30ms on my GeForce 1080 in combination with SSIM 2D.
How can you choose NGU sharp when downscaling ? In combination with SSIM 2D ?
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Old 7th November 2018, 04:21   #53599  |  Link
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Upscale with NGU then downscale with SSIM, NGU is only an upscaler, SSIM is only a downscaler.
I prefer this as my primary sharpening process.
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Old 7th November 2018, 06:22   #53600  |  Link
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NGU Soft is quite useful for 720p -> 1080p upscaling, it looks more natural than NGU Standard.
I like NGU AA over NGU soft for content that needs a more natural looking upscale. 720 -> 1080 is a pretty small upscale so differences are more subtle but you don't like NGU AA for that?
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