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26th January 2020, 13:52 | #1161 | Link |
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The source files are incorrectly flagged so often anything automatic will fail. We encoders are all so elitist because WE KNOW BETTER THAN THE MACHINES!
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26th January 2020, 23:32 | #1163 | Link | ||
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Oh sure, I thought that you had noticed my reply here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...79#post1896679 MediaInfo reports this: Quote:
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The converted clip is here: https://www.sendspace.com/file/0zcoxv |
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27th January 2020, 02:02 | #1164 | Link | ||
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Because the sample is animation you get get away with lots of duplicate frames and not see a difference. If it was live action though, with lots of film sections, every fourth frame being repeated would probably get annoying fairly quickly. I wonder why a program dedicated to DVD encoding wouldn't tell ffms2 to honour the pulldown flags by default, especially for a 29.97fps source? The script seems to indicate it's encoding the video as interlaced anyway..... although now I'm thinking about it, I recall the ffms2 help file says it'll throw an error if honouring repeat flags is enabled but the stream doesn't have any. I can't say I've tested that, but I have no idea what the logic behind that behaviour might be. |
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27th January 2020, 02:09 | #1165 | Link | |
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27th January 2020, 18:00 | #1167 | Link |
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Thank you, manolito, for your script. It's easy to show that it is producing garbage compared to a proper conversion. I'll just look at video here (although audio sync also fluctuates significantly). Your script is producing 29.97 when most people will want 23.976 without dupes. Nevertheless, I omit the TDecimate call in my version so as to be able to compare the methods. Also note that I do not deinterlace either in DGSource() or via TFM() postprocessing, so the DG method is deriving good progressive frames throughout. Here is the script I use for comparing the methods:
Code:
LoadCPlugin("ffms2.dll") manolito = FFVideoSource("lainvob.vob", track=-1, fpsnum=2997, fpsden=100, colorspace="YV12", seekmode=2).subtitle("manolito") loadplugin("d:\don\Programming\C++\dgdecnv\DGDecodeNV\x32\release\dgdecodenv.dll") loadplugin("D:\Don\Programming\C++\Avisynth filters\tritical stuff\TIVTC\tivtc.dll") dgsource("G:\Streams\MPG\Pulldown\lainvob.dgi",fieldop=0) dg=tfm(PP=0).subtitle("DG") #tdecimate() stackhorizontal(dg,manolito) 548 606 714 730-840 birds are interlaced 876 lacing on scene change 900 lacing on scene change 933- lots of laced frames from here Don't do random access because ffms2 doesn't do it correctly and my numbers above are for linear play from the beginning. Any reasonable person would reject the manolito method. It's way worse than "not optimal". As several have claimed, the correct way to handle material like this is to honor the pulldown and then do IVTC using (for example) TFM/TDecimate. Last edited by videoh; 27th January 2020 at 18:06. |
27th January 2020, 18:32 | #1168 | Link | |
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Of course my conversion has interlaced frames. When I make a DVD the common recommendation is to keep interlaced sources interlaced and let the TV handle the deinterlacing. I showed the 2 versions of the clip to a friend without telling him what to look for (he is a journalist for a public TV broadcaster). He could not tell which version was which. I think we can stop this here... |
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27th January 2020, 18:48 | #1170 | Link | |
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27th January 2020, 18:50 | #1171 | Link | |
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Echoing TheFluff, if you are "making a DVD" why is any conversion necessary at all? The lainvob.vob clip is already a DVD sample.
People want to make film-rate MKVs, etc. Your script fails badly for that. The progressive frames are waiting there, begging to be extracted. Quote:
Last edited by videoh; 27th January 2020 at 19:40. |
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27th January 2020, 19:01 | #1172 | Link | |
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I use a GUI for my conversions. For DVD conversions I use AVStoDVD. AVStoDVD analyzes the source using MediaInfo. For the clip in question MediaInfo DOES NOT report pulldown flags, it reports 29.97 interlaced TFF instead. And if AVStoDVD thinks that there are no pulldown flags then it will NOT try to honor them. To save the reputation of AVStoDVD I have to add that whenever it encounters an MPEG2 or VOB source it strongly suggests to index the source with DGIndex. And DGIndex does honor pulldown flags by default. I just have my reasons to avoid DG software as much as I can... Last edited by manolito; 27th January 2020 at 19:04. |
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27th January 2020, 19:07 | #1173 | Link | |
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Don't forget that we now have other source filters that do the right thing by honoring pulldown. I'm happy to know that DG tools have blazed the trail! Did you have any comment on my earlier questions? For example, how would you handle a transport stream with irregular frame repeats? Last edited by videoh; 27th January 2020 at 19:15. |
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27th January 2020, 19:38 | #1174 | Link |
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Actually, I just realized that if you do this:
Code:
Video = FFVideoSource("F:\Download\lainvob.vob", track=-1, fpsnum=2997, fpsden=100, colorspace="YV12", seekmode=2) So yeah, don't do that. I still think ignoring pulldown flags is the best default and gives the best result in general if your goal is to encode progressive, but for your use case I don't see how it makes any sense. e: Stephen got there first |
27th January 2020, 19:42 | #1175 | Link | |||
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Last edited by manolito; 27th January 2020 at 19:46. |
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27th January 2020, 19:52 | #1176 | Link |
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Yes, I do know this. I repeat frames instead of fields, and most folks agree that repeating fields should give smoother motion. Being from PAL land I always found that even standard 3:2 NTSC pulldown results in ugly motion judder, it's just that people from NTSC land are so used to it that they don't even notice it any more.
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27th January 2020, 19:59 | #1177 | Link |
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I'd say what most people probably do around here is encode progressive content as progressive without duplicate frames, actually. Either by ignoring pulldown flags or by applying IVTC. They don't actually make interlaced displays anymore, y'know?
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27th January 2020, 20:10 | #1178 | Link |
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Yes, but manolito is quite passionate about his good old CRT TV (as well as a non-SSE2 CPU). To each his own.
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27th January 2020, 20:31 | #1179 | Link |
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Groucho, you are absolutely correct. Keeping my old hardware I do hardly sacrifice anything, and I keep my carbon dioxide footprint low. Sustainability, repair instead of throwing things into the trash bin...
//OT// I saw that you have compiled a ColorMatrix 2.6 build which I could use for UHD sources. It just does not like my non-SSE2 CPU. Any chance for a build which does not require SSE2? It is not really too important because my ancient non-SSE2 computer will hardly see any UHD source files. But I like to have consistent tool versions on all of my machines. //End OT// |
27th January 2020, 20:32 | #1180 | Link |
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No problem.
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