madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[VBB]

@mclingo - Did you by any chance use SM outside of 60Hz? That would make it very blurry, yes. Even though I'm currently taking a break from SM, I find that on OLEDs in particular, it really helps to reduce the stutter in pans and fast motion.

madshi wants to implement interpolation, but it is currently unclear whether that will be an Envy exclusive or eventually make its way into madVR. As much as I hate the soap opera effect, I certainly wouldn't mind a superior version without artifacts built right into our favorite software.

[iSeries]

Originally Posted by QBhd

I use a De-Judder of 2

Me too on my C8. I only rarely see interpolation artifacts at this low setting, but what I do see is much smoother and sharper motion without any 'soap opera effect'. I find 24p with RealCinema headache inducing, the judder is just too much.

[mclingo]

Hi yeah I using 60hz and I turned off all motion interpolation on my TV, with it on its unwatchable, dont get me wrong its not terrible, on a static image it looks just as good but as soon as things start to move it become a bit blurry. The reason I want to use it at all is I cant get rid of a problem I have with some content and I know its not the content itself as it plays fine on my other LCD TV. Essentially every now and again I a jitter that looks like its skips a few frames but when I check MADVR it hasnt skipped any. I can pretty much cure this by turn try motion off but IMHO you have to have some interpolation on OLED as movement can look quite jarring sometimes as the response time is so quick the there is no smearing between frames like you get on an LCD. For the most part a quick response time is a good thing but it can leave what looks like jagged edges to elements on screen moving quickly accross it.

I dont have any issues with my 1080p bluray remuxes but I have some issues with some 4k bluray remuxes, I also have issues with some downloaded streamed rips, all again tested on my other TV to be fine.

My ageing OLED seems to have picked up a bit of a flutter with some 4k HDR material, if I tone map to SDR however instead of sending a HDR signal to my TV this also resolves the problem.

untimately running everything at SDR through MADVR with tonemapping resolves the issue so I can just leave it as is but I always feel i'm missing something not using the full HDR capabilites of my TV, but i'm sure i'm not as it was only 420 nits new and its 5 years old so it will likely be lower than that now.

I use trumotion 2, that for me gives the best balance, zero soap opera affect and a bit of smoothing.

[Asmodian]

Smooth motion at 120+ Hz is where it really starts to shine IMO.

There are a lot more high refresh rate displays available today so smooth motion is more usable than ever.

Originally Posted by mclingo

I can pretty much cure this by turn try motion off but IMHO you have to have some interpolation on OLED as movement can look quite jarring sometimes as the response time is so quick the there is no smearing between frames like you get on an LCD.

At 60 Hz the blending does look softer but at 120+ Hz smooth motion works really well on OLEDs, just enough blurring to help this issue with 24 fps content but not enough to make the image appear noticeably softer.

I also find I don't really like maximum sharpness. My content is good enough and my screen small enough that maximizing sharpness isn't better. I usually use NGU AA instead of NGU Sharp now too, maybe I just like a softer image.

I use PC mode with no interpolation or other motion help on the TV. Back to 444 limited range from the GPU due to near black banding with full range RGB.

[Alexkral]

I assume this isn't going to sound very popular, but in my experience, once you get used to motion interpolation, what actually looks terrible sometimes is when you're not using it, especially in camera movements. Anyway I'm talking about SVP, I have hardly tested the motion interpolation of my TV, but I remember that when I did it it produced a lot of lag, and I didn't like it. With SVP using the default settings at 60Hz there are quite a few artifacts, but they can be greatly reduced by adjusting the settings and doing some tricks. There is blurring in fast-moving scenes, but it is not very noticeable and can also be reduced. At 120Hz on the laptop I haven't tested it much yet, but I still can't recall seeing any artifacts or blurring at all.

I don't use it to get more realism, but simply because in my opinion it looks better. I admit that at first most of the time I didn't like it, everything seems much more real, the sets look like the sets they are, the actors look like actors instead of the characters they play, but now I rarely have that feeling. So the problem in my case is that I had to spend some time with that feeling that sometimes I didn't like what I was seeing, which I did mostly out of curiosity. Now most of the time I don't even have a problem using it in old color movies. Only old black and white movies look too good.

And believe it or not, I'm a cinephile.

[mclingo]

i tend to agree with that, as long as its applied judiciously.

[VBB]

Oh, absolutely. Your brain needs time to adjust. It goes both ways. When I first got my OLED, I came from a pretty decent LCD, which I had used with a bit of motion interpolation. Sitting much closer to the OLED, I couldn't stand the stutter, so I immediately turned on TruMotion. I would slowly work my way up until eventually, months later, I ended up with de-judder at 5! SOE sets in at about 3... I had gotten used to it, but then I watched Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade one day, and the first scene in Venice has a vertical pan along the canal, if I remember correctly, and the artifacting was so bad that I quit using TM that day. Haven't looked back, even though it took some time again to get used to the stutter. These days, I notice the stutter, but it's not jarring, and I do very much prefer the natural look of motion. Would I go back to using interpolation? I think so, if it was built into madVR. I am not a fan of any processing done by the display, because it pretty much always causes issues: video delay, artifacts, improper pull-down, and so on. I feel like PC mode on the LGs is as pure as it gets, flaws and all.

[QBhd]

I came from a silky smooth plasma to OLED... So the jitter for me was doubly strong.

QB

[mclingo]

LG tru motion does a really good job in my opinion, I see no issues at all all the way up to 3 but I use 2, yeah i'd much prefer to see something like in MADVR but looking at how slow things happen these days Its doubtful we'll see any motion tweaks from MADSHI for years.

[ausvette]

I have a really weird problem. Using Windows 10 all latest updates with a 2080ti latest drivers, also earlier drivers.

I'm using madvr v113 and v114 with Kodi 17.7 dsplayer.

When I use madvr with mpc-be outside kodi there are no problems. everything works normally.

As soon as I use report bt2020 to display with Kodi 17.7 dsplayer, the video levels are changed from full range 0-255 to limited range 16-235 and jvc projector reports bt2020 color always. The nvidea settings remain unchanged and changing them and changing them back doesn't make any difference. All settings look good, but the drivers operation is now permanently locked to limited range and bt2020 output.

Once this happens the only way I've found to get back to normal operation is to delete the drivers and reinstall.

Rebooting pc, turning off the entire system all makes no difference.

I'm really at a loss as to cause of this and how to trouble shoot it.

[Scrambler]

Hi,

Is it possible to implement Dolby Vision metadata passthrough (just like HDR10 currently implemented) for compatible devices (TV's, ASUS PA32UCX monitor, etc)?
Combining this with fullscreen display modes switching (which is already implemented) would solve the problem of proper Dolby Vision playback on Windows machines.

Thanks.

[*MidnightWatcher*]

New test build v114 from Madshi

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure114.zip

Notes on this release found here.

[ND2560]

Can someone tell me if/where it's possible to turn off HDR on a 4k HDR file in potplayer or madvr setiings? But without turning the picture grey lookin...just SDR 4k

[Asmodian]

HDR isn't something you can turn off like that. The file is encoded as HDR, it will look very washed out if you view it on an SDR display without an active conversion. You need to tone map it to your display.

Use madVR's HDR tab to tone map.

Originally Posted by Scrambler

Is it possible to implement Dolby Vision metadata passthrough (just like HDR10 currently implemented) for compatible devices (TV's, ASUS PA32UCX monitor, etc)?

No one has the documentation needed to process Dolby Vision. You need to pay a lot of money for the docs to be able to support Dolby Vision, even for a "simple" passthrough.

[SamuriHL]

That's not entirely accurate anymore. In fact, it's not even remotely accurate anymore. A lot of work has been done in the last year on Dolby Vision. We now have an MKV spec for it. We're able to play those on Dolby Vision capable devices like the SHIELD, firestick, and others. What's needed for PC playback is a few things. First a decoder. Some of the drivers for nVidia and Intel at least seem to have Dolby Vision support for some things (netflix? gaming? I don't know) so there's a possibility that something like LAV Video could find a way to utilize that functionality. Then you would need a Dolby Vision capable renderer, which is what the ask is here. madshi has shown exactly zero interest in doing something like that. Given the time he's spending on Envy, we're LUCKY to have a new HDR tone mapping build for madvr right now. Maybe at some far off future point when Envy is selling like hotcakes, the tensor core algorithms he wants to create are created, HDR tone mapping is perfected, etc he might be convinced to revisit. But right now? Not a chance of it happening. But from a technical perspective, at least, it MIGHT be able to be done.

[QBhd]

We wouldn't need a DV capable renderer per say... just a chain that will allow passthrough. The end device will process the DV (e.g. my LG C8)... I was just talking about this today at work And as far as I know, there is yet to be a PC chain that can do this... by chain I mean player, decoder, renderer, and GPU driver.... I am sure all would need to be able to passthrough the DV for it to work.

QB

[SamuriHL]

And we have a container for it now and the ability to create them. Man wouldn't that be nice but is wildly off topic for this thread for the moment. As I mentioned, it doesn't seem like madshi has any interest in this at all right now. Not to say someday he wouldn't but that doesn't help us now. I wonder (and this doesn't mean go pester him about it!!) is Nev would have any interest in looking at the decoding side of this for LAV Video? A gentle inquiry to see if there's any interest at all wouldn't necessarily hurt over in the LAV thread. And if he says no, then we can kill the idea for now.

[Alexkral]

I have the docs, and maybe it would be possible to implement something very similar even without a decoder by analyzing the image statistics. The problem is that it's a proprietary standard, so you'll need to pay for a license to do it. The same goes for HDR10+, but the license is probably more affordable.

[SamuriHL]

Such stupid standards.

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by ND2560

Can someone tell me if/where it's possible to turn off HDR on a 4k HDR file in potplayer or madvr setiings? But without turning the picture grey lookin...just SDR 4k

hi if you untick "send HDR to display" in MADVR it wil automatically tone map the HDR movie to SDR, therefore it wont be washed out, this is ideal for those of us with none HDR TV's, projectors and early generation HDR tv's with very low NITs