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Old 16th November 2019, 21:18   #21  |  Link
VictorLS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Knoop View Post
50i (or 25i if you prefer this semantic)!
I'm not professional but I'm sure not 50i but i50=25i on my own.
May be someone know place where shader-writers are to ask them about writing HLG->BT.709 shader there?
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Old 16th November 2019, 21:59   #22  |  Link
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I'm not professional but I'm sure not 50i but i50=25i on my own.
It's semantics it refers to the same thing. 50 fields per second or 25 frames per second. Personally I prefer the 50i terminology because 2 fields do not actually make a visual frame!
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Old 16th November 2019, 23:27   #23  |  Link
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It's semantics it refers to the same thing. 50 fields per second or 25 frames per second.
I knew that but I'm about place of letter i (before or after number) is important: 25i means 25 full-height frames are get from 50 interlaced (half-height i50) frames.
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Originally Posted by Cary Knoop View Post
2 fields do not actually make a visual frame!
Commonly you're right but in case of static it's equal.
Btw high quality double framerate deinterlacers (i.e. Yadif) gives enough video quality for not too fast moving to say i50=p50=50p - in case of progressive video place of p doesn't important.
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Old 20th June 2020, 14:21   #24  |  Link
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After mpv I've just found that VLC 3.0.11x64 (in Win7x64) with OpenGL video output gives ~ right colors (incl. red) while playing HLG on SDR monitor.
Who can extract ps_2_0 or ps_3_0 shader from I suppose libplacebo (license is LGPLv2.1+) to use in app SmartDVB?

Last edited by VictorLS; 20th June 2020 at 14:54.
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Old 5th July 2020, 21:44   #25  |  Link
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I've reuploaded 20190526-164153_RTL UHD.ts (687MB) https://transfiles.ru/gyjv4 for HLG tests.
Here's https://transfiles.ru/2a2f9 two new shaders but still give wrong colors on my own (tested in MPC-HC 1.9.6)
May be someone can adjust parameters to achieve colors like in mpv and VLC?
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Old 14th July 2020, 18:08   #26  |  Link
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I've made some screenshots from 20190526-164153_RTL UHD.ts on Ryzen 3 3200G under Win10 2004 with Adrenalin20.7.1 (on 50Гц DVI) HLG.7z (19 MB) https://transfiles.ru/gx1mz and had asked people with eyes seeng right colors what png is nearest to real colors?
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Old 15th July 2020, 13:22   #27  |  Link
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I've reuploaded 20190526-164153_RTL UHD.ts (687MB) https://transfiles.ru/gyjv4 for HLG tests
For comparison I've found same ~4 minutes piece but recorded from SAT feed so SDR H.264 1920x1080i50 4:2:2 (so don't accelerated now - may be Intel Xe will in nearest future - but each core of my Athlon II x3 360 load about 60% and video absolutely fluent) Formula1.2019.Round06.Monaco.Race.Sat.Feed.1080i.H264.Multi.Language.mkv (478 MB) https://transfiles.ru/9vyow

Last edited by VictorLS; 15th July 2020 at 13:37.
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Old 16th July 2020, 21:40   #28  |  Link
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For devices not supported 4:2:2 to compare HLG and SDR I've downloaded and did same fragment 4:2:0 F1.Round.06.Grand.Prix.de.Monaco.2019.Race.HDTV.1080i_.ts (312 MB) https://transfiles.ru/aoxe0
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Old 22nd July 2020, 05:32   #29  |  Link
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did same fragment 4:2:0 F1.Round.06.Grand.Prix.de.Monaco.2019.Race.HDTV.1080i_.ts (312 MB) https://transfiles.ru/aoxe0
Modern Ryzen 3 3200G drivers (older not tried) hangs when use hardware acceleration of that file so I reupload new one F1.Round.06.Grand.Prix.de.Monaco.2019.Race.HDTV.1080iDG.ts (313 MB) https://transfiles.ru/oj6st
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Old 23rd July 2020, 00:17   #30  |  Link
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For HLG tests (to achieve ~ right colors while in ordinary DirectShow players like MPC-HC(BE), PotPlayer, KMPlayer etc) I've reuploaded ts files with same piece of F1 race to more permanent place:
1. Original 4K HLG file 20190526-164153_RTL UHD.ts (687 MB) https://yadi.sk/d/6_vZCglWkP1xxw
2. 4:2:2 FullHD BT.709 file from SAT feed Formula1.2019.Round06.Monaco.Race.Sat.Feed.1080i.H264.Multi.Language_fromMKVtsMuxerNotHDMVcompatible.ts (501 MB) https://yadi.sk/i/X1nPqEAqIAZXoQ
3. 4:2:0 BT.709 file from FullHD Russian channel F1.Round.06.Grand.Prix.de.Monaco.2019.Race.HDTV.1080iDGSplit.ts (313 MB) https://yadi.sk/d/5NCBNVwWx9rWZQ

Last edited by VictorLS; 23rd July 2020 at 05:51.
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Old 24th July 2020, 01:06   #31  |  Link
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Originally Posted by VictorLS View Post
I've made some screenshots from 20190526-164153_RTL UHD.ts on Ryzen 3 3200G under Win10 2004 with Adrenalin20.7.1 (on 50Гц DVI) HLG.7z (19 MB) https://transfiles.ru/gx1mz and had asked people with eyes seeng right colors what png is nearest to real colors?
following our discussion in the thread https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=181584 I do find it concerning that widely different results are obtained with the same vlc player depending on which api (dx/opengl) is used.

Could the avisynth script DGHDRtoSDR mentionned at the beginning of this thread be used as a reference, on your HLG test files, to determine what the accurate result is ?
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:29   #32  |  Link
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I do find it concerning that widely different results are obtained with the same vlc player depending on which api (dx/opengl) is used...what the accurate result is ?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...15#post1916215
so answer is only OpenGL gives ~ right colors while playing HLG (D3D9 and others gives wrong colors) on SDR (BT.709) monitor in Win7 and after additional research D3D11&OpenGL in Win8-10 but D3D11 usually gives more fluent video such OpenGL in Win7. Versions of mpv before August 2019 gives such as VLC OpenGL colors while playing HLG files without hardware acceleration too.

Last edited by VictorLS; 24th July 2020 at 15:23.
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Old 26th July 2020, 21:37   #33  |  Link
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HLG to SDR (video players)

test file: RTL_HLG_2160p.mp4 (top of the thread, RTL title screen)
compared vs RTL_SDR
tbc: to be confirmed

no correction: POOR (but shaders are supported for correction)
- mpc-hc (EVR-CP)
- vlc (dx9)

HLG auto-correction: GOOD
- vlc (dx11, default Output mode > Win8)
- vlc (OpenGL for windows), using libplacebo (tbc)
- mpv (tbc)
it is reported that mpv output can be made more similar to vlc through conf file settings.

HDR auto-correction: BAD
- mpc-be
- Convert HDR to SDR.hlsl

Last edited by butterw2; 28th July 2020 at 13:36.
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Old 26th July 2020, 22:50   #34  |  Link
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Originally Posted by butterw2 View Post
no correction: POOR (but shaders are supported for correction)
- vlc (dx9)
How to use external shaders in VLC?
PS. I've just seen http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...02#post1919502 (great work, but when 20190526-164153_RTL UHD.ts paused in MPC-HC to see effect after turning shader off must be play next frame (i.e. Astra Ultra HD Demo.ts don't need play next frame) - KMPlayer 4.0.7.1 can fully operate with shaders when 20190526-164153_RTL UHD.ts paused) and found where shader in VLC but haven't tried it yet.

Last edited by VictorLS; 28th July 2020 at 05:26.
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Old 27th July 2020, 19:32   #35  |  Link
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Originally Posted by butterw2 View Post
HLG auto-correction: GOOD
- vlc (dx11, default Output mode > Win8)
If watch carefully on high-quality monitor (not TN) i.e. red color in VLC (DXVAChecker) D3D11 not really red on my own - with VLC OpenGL much closer to red.

Last edited by VictorLS; 27th July 2020 at 21:00.
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Old 28th July 2020, 12:53   #36  |  Link
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Good doesn't imply perfect.

Based on this sample (upconverted SDR most likely), my main takeaway is that the HLG backwards compatibility on SDR (HDTVs) is quite underwhelming. However some processing as performed in vlc might improve on this result. A purist however might say that HDR can only be properly displayed on a HDR screen.

I tried out an encoder gui to see what the out of the box tonemapping experience might be like:
-HLG x265 pass-through: worked OK.
-HLG to SDR performed in avisynth with HDRTools: better than nothing, but still not GOOD.

Moreover, implementing the required processing is likely more difficult in a video player vs avisynth because you have to deal with DirectShow, the GPU SW/HW and realtime processing constraints.
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Old 31st July 2020, 15:37   #37  |  Link
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Hi there. Someone brought this thread to my attention after demo'ing some work I did on a HDR10 to HLG converter.

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Based on this sample (upconverted SDR most likely), my main takeaway is that the HLG backwards compatibility on SDR (HDTVs) is quite underwhelming.
I think the main issue you guys are running into is 2020 to 709 color mapping. HDTVs do 709. 4K TVs do 2020. Most 4K TVs are HDR, but some are SDR, particularly older ones. HLG was designed to be compatible with these 4K SDR TVs that still did 2020 color. HLG was never really intended to display properly on HDTVs.

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Originally Posted by butterw2 View Post
However some processing as performed in vlc might improve on this result.
VLC does indeed have excellent algorithms for mapping 2020 to 709. They're actually quite good. I've uploaded some screenshots of Alita: Battle Angel in HLG displayed by VLC.

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A purist however might say that HDR can only be properly displayed on a HDR screen.
HDR is a complete and total mess, if I may be frank. But HLG is much better about SDR as long as the HLG picture is balanced correctly, meaning that reference white is calibrated to 75% input signal strength. Again, a purist is going to say that HLG should always be shown on a 2020-capable device.
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Old 31st July 2020, 16:52   #38  |  Link
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Originally Posted by wswartzendruber View Post
Someone brought this thread to my attention after demo'ing some work I did on a HDR10 to HLG converter.
Good joke - it was me (topicstarter) here
Quote:
Originally Posted by wswartzendruber View Post
VLC does indeed have excellent algorithms for mapping 2020 to 709. They're actually quite good.
You're quiet right - if some shader will give same quality as VLC it'll be appreciated.
Some more exact in case of HLG ARIB STD-B67 instead of yours 2020 on my own.
You can download libplacebo from VLC and three sample videos from my posts above.
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Originally Posted by wswartzendruber View Post
HDR is a complete and total mess, if I may be frank. But HLG is much better about SDR as long as the HLG picture is balanced correctly, meaning that reference white is calibrated to 75% input signal strength. Again, a purist is going to say that HLG should always be shown on a 2020-capable device.
I agree, but again VLC quality of showing HLG (ARIB STD-B67) on BT.709 monitors and TVsets is quiet enough.
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Old 1st August 2020, 13:09   #39  |  Link
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From wswartzendruber's post I've known Kodi is next (after mpv and VLC) player with well HLGtoSDR tonemapping (I tried and confirm that HLG 20190526-164153_RTL UHD.ts (687 MB) https://yadi.sk/d/6_vZCglWkP1xxw is played in Kodi with ~ right colors) but we need HLGtoSDR shader

Last edited by VictorLS; 1st August 2020 at 13:11.
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Old 26th September 2020, 23:41   #40  |  Link
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Free-To-Air channel RTL UHD Austria provider ORS begins from 19e2 11214h22000 - it's some strange (same German RTL UHD now too): while adv and studio it's ordinary HLG but when F1 from our Russian Sochi colors are good on SDR monitor without any processing like shader, modern MPC-BE, VLC, mpv or Kodi. Here's sample 20200926-153844_RTL UHD Austria.ts (232 MB) https://yadi.sk/d/_4Oo1_awZEQr4g
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