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Old 30th November 2020, 19:43   #60861  |  Link
VBB
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I'm pretty sure chros read that wrong LOL. Of course the only goal is accuracy.
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Old 30th November 2020, 22:45   #60862  |  Link
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No, I didn't, I meant it. It's a long story why, I think it's all BS For example if you try to run the same measurements 2 times you won't get back the very same results. How can we call this accurate? And I could go on: meters, software settings, etc. Not to mention you can easily make things worse than it is by default if you don't know what needs to be done (e.g. using bt1886 with an IPS panel, etc). It was never about accuracy, but pleasing colors
Let alone hdr10/dovi calibration where they measure 3 colors... in 2020... And if you watch 60% HDR content then you are screwed anyway.
Honestly, if you buy an LG or Panasonic Oled TV today then you don't have to deal with calibration. Fortunately a lot has changed in the last 10 years.
I also use 3dluts, don't get me wrong, but I don't state that is necessary. It's a hobby for me

And back to hdr, I just wrote this on the other forum: while we fool around with sdr 3dluts, the average Joe turns on his telly and just enjoys DoVi content on netflix/atv+/etc on his uncalibrated tv
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Last edited by chros; 30th November 2020 at 23:05.
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Old 30th November 2020, 23:06   #60863  |  Link
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I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't dispute that calibration = accuracy. You're right that it's just not worth it right now to chase perfection when it comes to HDR. An inferior meter, and the lack of a spectro to do proper profiling, is a major reason why I stopped creating new LUTs altogether. I agree it's not necessary. It's something you can aim for as a hobby, if you have the time and proper equipment.

I did read your post over at AVS Always been like that, and lately that's exactly what I've been doing, too (the just enjoying content part).
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Old 30th November 2020, 23:15   #60864  |  Link
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Then I don't understand what you guys call accurate For me it means repeatable results: if you can replicate your test case 100% with the very same outcome. If you can't that's not accurate, that's something completely different And unfortunately the tons of guys who do this by living spread this nonsense to the uneducated public But that's only what I think... So yes, I agree with @tp4tissue in this.
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Old 30th November 2020, 23:22   #60865  |  Link
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Accurate in the sense of calibrated to a standard. Of course, you'll always get slightly different results due to meter inaccuracy and fluctuation, panel drift, etc. Believe me, I don't blindly follow the likes of D-Nice, et al, but I will have my next TV calibrated professionally. For my own peace of mind

And BTW, I don't think tp4tissue would agree with you on what you've been saying here today. After all, he touts calibration and LUT use above all else non-stop :P
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Old 30th November 2020, 23:35   #60866  |  Link
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These OLEDs drift WAY too much to accurately calibrate HDR and DV. Trust me, I tried chasing that and learned a lot in the process. However, that being said, you CAN improve them by calibrating a proper white point balance. And of course, SDR can and should be calibrated properly.
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Old 30th November 2020, 23:41   #60867  |  Link
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That's not an issue, that's why I said "in this", meaning accuracy vs pleasing colors
Of course there's valid reason for calibration/profiling as well:
- when your panel/mainboard is changed and the unmatched white point hurts your brain
- or when dear LG FAQs the gamma with a sudden firmware update resulting brutal black crush
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Old 30th November 2020, 23:43   #60868  |  Link
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THAT never happens! LOL
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Old 30th November 2020, 23:45   #60869  |  Link
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Alright, let's leave it at that. I'm fairly certain that we agree on most things anyway. It just comes down to semantics
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Old 1st December 2020, 00:12   #60870  |  Link
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Yes, you can put it in this way
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:47   #60871  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBB View Post
I'm pretty sure chros read that wrong LOL. Of course the only goal is accuracy.
@ VBB/ el filou,

I am literally Paraphrasing out of a colorimetry textbook. The goal of colorimetry is Good Looking colors.

There is a separation between what colorimetry IS, and the GOAL of colorimetry.
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 1st December 2020 at 02:04.
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:48   #60872  |  Link
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Originally Posted by chros View Post
Then I don't understand what you guys call accurate For me it means repeatable results: if you can replicate your test case 100% with the very same outcome. If you can't that's not accurate, that's something completely different And unfortunately the tons of guys who do this by living spread this nonsense to the uneducated public But that's only what I think... So yes, I agree with @tp4tissue in this.
Accurate means the Exact color as stipulated by the standards.

Precision is the operation on the repeatability aspect.
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Old 1st December 2020, 01:54   #60873  |  Link
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Also, if you guys really wanna blow out dat saturation, go with a 2.2g rec709 saturation lut. You go from Red to BLOOD LAKE. Yellow Trees, Irradiated Blue skies.

I've watched entire movies like this, And you know what, It's fine most of the time because colorists use the end of the saturation scale very sparingly, and the lut still preserves proper gamma/whitepoint/greybalance.

You will lose some texture detail on highly saturated tiles, and it clips at places, but meh.. it's mostly-fine.
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 1st December 2020 at 02:03.
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:34   #60874  |  Link
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It's not fine. The latest madvr betas have been trying to fix saturation problems when heavily compressing with DTM. I get that some people love that oversaturated "look and feel" but that doesn't make it correct. madshi is fighting for a scientific approach. I tend to agree.
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Old 1st December 2020, 08:38   #60875  |  Link
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Hi Guys I hope someone can help me please....
I have just two profiles only, one for SD and the other for HD.
If (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD"
else "HD"

However I want to refine it more to the following:
SD 24fps
SD 25fps
SD 60fps

HD 24fps
HD 25fps
HD 60fps

HDR 24fps
HDR 25fps
HDR 60fps

I have tried and tried to write the script but I just cant make anything work, can someone kindly help me please?
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Old 1st December 2020, 11:31   #60876  |  Link
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if (deintfps < 24.5) AND (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD 24fps"
if (deintfps < 25.5) AND (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD 25fps"
if (deintfps < 61) AND (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD 60fps"
if (deintfps < 24.5) AND (HDR) "HDR 24fps"
if (deintfps < 25.5) AND (HDR) "HDR 25fps"
if (HDR) "HDR 60fps"
if (deintfps < 24.5) "HD 24fps"
if (deintfps < 25.5) "HD 25fps"
else "HD 60fps"
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Old 1st December 2020, 14:24   #60877  |  Link
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Or this.
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Old 1st December 2020, 14:30   #60878  |  Link
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I always find simple is best:

Code:
if     (srcHeight < 721)  and (deintFps < 25) "720p23"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (bitdepth > 8)  "1080p23 HDR"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 25) "1080p23"
elseif (srcHeight < 2161) and (deintFps < 25) "2160p23"
elseif (srcHeight < 721)  and (deintFps < 26) "720p25"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 26) "1080p25"
elseif (srcHeight < 721)  and (deintFps < 31) "720p29"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 31) "1080p29"
elseif (srcHeight < 2161) and (deintFps < 31) "2160p29"
elseif (srcHeight < 721)  and (deintFps < 51) "720p50"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 51) "1080p50"
elseif (srcHeight < 721)  and (deintFps < 61) "720p59"
elseif (srcHeight < 1081) and (deintFps < 61) "1080p59"
elseif (srcHeight < 2161) and (deintFps < 61) "2160p59"
QB
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Old 1st December 2020, 15:57   #60879  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
I am literally Paraphrasing out of a colorimetry textbook. The goal of colorimetry is Good Looking colors. There is a separation between what colorimetry IS, and the GOAL of colorimetry.
OK I get this, I also get that many meters don't give 100% repeatable results and when you're not sure between two not 100% accurate results it's better to go with the most pleasing, and also that displays drift and have other weaknesses (I still have a plasma, so trust me I know about that), what I meant was that 'good looking' is kinda subjective, and you guys' subjective idea of that notion is simply closer due to experience to a studio mastering technician's when they grade a consumer release, than to someone's who just buys a TV and puts it into torch mode because it 'looks great'.
The goal is to be good looking, but the means by which we try to achieve that goal is to try to approach accuracy as much as possible. With some modern TVs, putting them in the right factory mode may be the only thing that's needed, and meters may not be 100% accurate but I've yet to see a display that looks worse after tuning it with any meter than before it, and if you just keep the factory "best mode" that will also drift with time.
HDR is of course a whole different subject as no consumer display is even currently capable of fully matching the spec.
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Old 1st December 2020, 16:54   #60880  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Hi Guys I hope someone can help me please....
I have just two profiles only, one for SD and the other for HD.
If (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD"
else "HD"


I have tried and tried to write the script but I just cant make anything work, can someone kindly help me please?
The other option is to buy a 1080ti, or even a 3080/3090.

And you won't have to do any of this stuff, just max setting the whole lot.
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