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Old 28th November 2018, 02:42   #53741  |  Link
Warner306
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The HDR -> SDR conversion could possibly introduce some banding from heavy compression. Your projector might also have issues with RGB inputs compared to YCbCr. The image is being sent from madVR with dithering to eliminate rounding errors that would cause banding, so the problem would likely start at the projector. Does the projector have any options for video levels or color space?

Last edited by Warner306; 28th November 2018 at 02:46.
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Old 28th November 2018, 03:58   #53742  |  Link
Asmodian
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I suspect the HDR -> SDR if you need to target low nits. I think debanding runs before HDR -> SDR?

The projector would process input from the Oppo similar to madVR, wouldn't it?
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Old 28th November 2018, 05:49   #53743  |  Link
Warner306
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RGB should produce the best result and that might involve extra conversions at the projector, which might create some errors. But I would also expect the two inputs would look more or less the same. Tone mapping does sound like the more likely cause. No pixels are removed, but the luminance steps can be altered enough to cause uneven gradients.

Some things to try:
  • Set the HDMI video range to Full or whatever Sony projectors call this setting to send RGB Full;
  • Disable highlight recovery strength in madVR to reduce the amount of image processing;
  • Find a scene with some banding and try considerably higher or lower target peak nits to see if the banding changes at all.
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Old 28th November 2018, 12:46   #53744  |  Link
madjock
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I have been working away for a bit, and have lost track of what is happening with madVR in the AVS forum, it just seems to be confusing graphs and the likes for a long time.

It looks like madshi has dropped out of the conversation as such, is this getting there, as I said all rather confusing on what is happening apart from everyone measuring their movies for NIT settings and fancy apps to display that info ?
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Old 28th November 2018, 14:39   #53745  |  Link
curael
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----EDIT
For RTX users with stuttering issues, please read, and try Fullscreen Exclusive mode! It solved my issue that I describe below:
----EDIT
Hi guys,

I'm fairly new on here. I've been using MadVR in conjunction with my GTX 1070 from EVGA for some years now and I've been very happy, the video clock on the card/display has been VERY close to 23.976, like.. We're talking .979 instead of .976..

My issue now.. Is that I got an RTX 2080, same TV, same PC, same AVR, same MadVR config.. And I'm getting stuttering every 2-4th second, 4K, 1080, 720.. You name it.

The only difference I can see is that my clock on the new card is up to 23.981.. I have an estimated frame repeat expectancy of 4.4 minutes.. Seems fairly accurate too.. No dropped frames, a render time of 20-31ms on 23 content.. Like.. Everything looks okay.

So this insane stuttering that was introduced with the new card.. Can it be fixed? Is there any way I can get closer to the 23.976? And before that.. Does this little difference actually matter?

I have read about CRU and thinking to try it out to try and get my clock closer, I just want to be sure that it's actually worth it at this point. I'm also getting a new TV really soon and I'd be so sad if I can't actually fix this issue since content is pretty much unwatchable right now cause of the insane amount of juddering introduced from the new card.

For the record, I got a 750W PSU along with the RTX card to make sure that I was supplying enough power, up from a 600W, I don't know if this has anything to say in terms of the clock on the display/card.

I am so sorry if I'm derailing but this is the only thread I really know and I know it holds so much good info on everything display, color, MadVR and overall HTPC related so I'm trying my luck.

Thanks so much.

/CuraeL

Last edited by curael; 28th November 2018 at 17:13.
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Old 28th November 2018, 14:44   #53746  |  Link
madjock
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@curael

There have been a few posts about stuttering with the new design cards, so you could maybe see if you could find them.

I think there were not many answers, I think the consensus was it was quite immature drivers for the card as it is, and may improve over time, I guess madshi will look at it in time, but the focus is on HDR at the moment.

I also think due to the fact you are using new card and new drivers you may struggle to get a frame rate match as good as your previous card, and that is why many of us are on older drivers for just the older cards, something you will not be able to do I guess as there will new issues for you due to this.

Heres one similair
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...45#post1857345

Last edited by madjock; 28th November 2018 at 15:01.
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Old 28th November 2018, 15:01   #53747  |  Link
curael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
@curael

I also think due to the fact you are using new card and new drivers you may struggle to get a frame rate match as good as your previous card, and that is why many of us are on older drivers for just the older cards, something you will not be able to do I guess as there will new issues for you due to this.
Yeah, I found a few comments on here that sounded like they were about my issue but I wasn't sure if I actually found everything.

I'm wondering the same as you, it could be early drivers.. But it could also just be that the RTX cards are a bit too aggressive when it comes to lower video clocks. Who knows..

Would "Smooth motion" fix anything if I set the display to only run 60Hz? I tried to look up what Smooth Motion actually did and found out it's an "image blending" technology, I think someone called it over at JRiver (which was what my Google-fu led me to.) How ever, I'm not sure it will do anything as it seems like Smooth Motion looks like it's designed for very specific frame rates and not a huge fix for juddering.

Anyway, I appreciate your answer and I think it confirms my belief that for now, I'm boned.

Thanks again,
/CuraeL
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Old 28th November 2018, 15:06   #53748  |  Link
huhn
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can you make a screen of the OSD after this has happend.
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Old 28th November 2018, 15:08   #53749  |  Link
austinminton
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I have a 2080 ti and get stuttering as well. Using fullscreen exclusive fixed it for me.
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Old 28th November 2018, 15:16   #53750  |  Link
curael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinminton View Post
I have a 2080 ti and get stuttering as well. Using fullscreen exclusive fixed it for me.
Oh..! I've had some issues with FSE in the past but that's just related to my setup I guess.. I don't recall exactly - but I stopped using it due to crashes but that's long ago. I'll certainly give that a try!

I appreciate that very much! Thanks!

/CuraeL
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Old 28th November 2018, 15:35   #53751  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
I have been working away for a bit, and have lost track of what is happening with madVR in the AVS forum, it just seems to be confusing graphs and the likes for a long time.

It looks like madshi has dropped out of the conversation as such, is this getting there, as I said all rather confusing on what is happening apart from everyone measuring their movies for NIT settings and fancy apps to display that info ?
I would think there would be a new build in the next week or two. It should be easy to understand at that point.
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Old 28th November 2018, 16:10   #53752  |  Link
giulianoprs
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https://imgur.com/a/NR9RdG0 Hello everyone, explain why vsync 20.00ms and frame 40.00ms? should not it be 41.00ms and 41.00ms?
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Old 28th November 2018, 16:18   #53753  |  Link
curael
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OM*G! Boys! FSE gives me smooth playback on the RTX 2080. THANK YOU SO MUCH! 👻😄
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Old 28th November 2018, 16:37   #53754  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giulianoprs View Post
https://imgur.com/a/NR9RdG0 Hello everyone, explain why vsync 20.00ms and frame 40.00ms? should not it be 41.00ms and 41.00ms?
25 fps is 40ms per frame, 50Hz is 20ms per VSYNC. Because 1000 / 50 = 20.
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Old 28th November 2018, 16:42   #53755  |  Link
giulianoprs
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so the statistics are ok? in fact this file, a TV series, is at 25fps.
I hope that the latest statistics with the last settings I made are good, I will ask you for advice on the HDR 4k in the future, hello to all and have a good day.
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Old 28th November 2018, 17:40   #53756  |  Link
curael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giulianoprs View Post
so the statistics are ok? in fact this file, a TV series, is at 25fps.
I hope that the latest statistics with the last settings I made are good, I will ask you for advice on the HDR 4k in the future, hello to all and have a good day.
Totally. They add up.

4K HDR functions very well in madVR these days so you should be able to use it without much hassle.

Have a good day

/CuraeL
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Old 28th November 2018, 17:47   #53757  |  Link
brazen1
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RE: choppy playback with newer cards and drivers and using FSE as workaround. I've noticed that some settings in madVR only apply when using windowed and therefor use more resources. When changed to FSE, the resources are not used and the settings are not applied afaik. I noticed this during playback when I switched from FSE into windowed by double clicking the player window field and the title would start to stutter. I created the ShowRenderSteps folder and noticed when windowed, many processes were present in madVR OSD. When I double clicked the player field and it goes back to FSE, those processes no longer showed and playback resources relaxed.

This may also be of interest:
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/enabl...ons-windows-10
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Last edited by brazen1; 28th November 2018 at 17:54.
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Old 28th November 2018, 18:41   #53758  |  Link
curael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
RE: choppy playback with newer cards and drivers and using FSE as workaround. I've noticed that some settings in madVR only apply when using windowed and therefor use more resources. When changed to FSE, the resources are not used and the settings are not applied afaik. I noticed this during playback when I switched from FSE into windowed by double clicking the player window field and the title would start to stutter. I created the ShowRenderSteps folder and noticed when windowed, many processes were present in madVR OSD. When I double clicked the player field and it goes back to FSE, those processes no longer showed and playback resources relaxed.

This may also be of interest:
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/enabl...ons-windows-10
Your scenario is worrisome, but it would explain the issues. That's too bad. So something is wrong with madVR FSE mode in conjunction with newer cards.

I'm not about to test this. I still have my GTX 1070 and I'm considering sending my RTX 2080 to @madshi, lol - if it could help him out in looking into these things - if it's even a MadVR issue.

Thanks for your test btw.

/CuraeL
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Old 28th November 2018, 18:59   #53759  |  Link
brazen1
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Don't be confused. I'm not using a newer card. I'm still using my GTX 960 4GB with newest drivers 417.01 and madVR v0.92.17 noticing what I posted. Thought it might be relevant no matter what card is being used and could aid you guys with newer stuff. New drivers were released a couple days ago fwiw. Now into the x17.xx branch. There are changes to the control panel, mainly for gamers like game ratings.
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
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KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W

Last edited by brazen1; 28th November 2018 at 19:02.
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Old 28th November 2018, 19:08   #53760  |  Link
curael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Don't be confused. I'm not using a newer card. I'm still using my GTX 960 4GB with newest drivers 417.01 and madVR v0.92.17 noticing what I posted. Thought it might be relevant no matter what card is being used and could aid you guys with newer stuff. New drivers were released a couple days ago fwiw. Now into the x17.xx branch. There are changes to the control panel, mainly for gamers like game ratings.
Oh my, that might explain what Warner once said over at the Kodi DSplayer thread where "some" Win10 distros didn't apply the settings that were actually set.. Maybe it's just a matter of FSE and FSWindowed not acting the same?

I'll let someone more knowledgeable than me take over.

/CuraeL
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