Audio compilation in Sonic Scenarist ?

lutinor · 20th August 2011, 12:55

Hi all,

I want to make something new for me. In Scenarist authoring, i can make menu with button. Some button launch a menu and some other launch a video. Nothing complicated, right ? Now my question :

Is there a way to be in a menu and when you click on a button you launch an audio file WITHOUT menu exit ? I guess you see that i want to make a blueray audio compilation from my super audio cd (i like lossless audio).

Thx in adv,

Max.

mp3dom · 20th August 2011, 16:50

I'm quite optimistic that you can do it if you have a still menu (not a video) in a similar way you would do it for DVD (with slideshow). As a video, I think you can't do it in a seamless way (when you press the button you go to a new movie that starts from the beginning). I think you can't enable/disable/change the audio in the same clip from beginning of the audio without affecting the video too.

lutinor · 20th August 2011, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp3dom

I'm quite optimistic that you can do it if you have a still menu (not a video) in a similar way you would do it for DVD (with slideshow). As a video, I think you can't do it in a seamless way (when you press the button you go to a new movie that starts from the beginning). I think you can't enable/disable/change the audio in the same clip from beginning of the audio without affecting the video too.

Well i already thought about 2 ways:

Each 'audio song' is in fact a menu. There isn't any movie title, only a lot of menu with audio background (the music). It will work but i think there will be a little 'wait time' before the new menu.

The other way is a still image video + audio for each song but i don't really like it cause it will be long to navigate between all album.

If people have other idea it will be nice

paulemasters · 21st August 2011, 17:18

Hello:

I too want to make an audio BD. I have over 200 'tracks' in a number of 'albums' of discrete 4 channel 'surround' audio (from quad 8 track tapes!).
However, there is no audio only BD format in the spec. (Well, there is (Profile 3 or 4 I think) but it has never been 'official' and therefore no player supports it.) I think there is a company that will create an audio BD, but they want to do the work and I can't afford the cost - I am an individual and not doing this for profit.

I have thought of using a slide show. But you can't 'jump' to a 'chapter' in a slide show.

Using menus is interesting, I hadn't thought of that. However, remember that with BDJ or HDMV, menus have to have playing video to display on. (All menus in BD are 'pop up' so there is the image buffer limit to be aware of.)

I created an audio DVD using DVD LAB Pro and could get all 20 cartridges on 2 DVDs. It all would have fit on one but for the 99 title limit. That was with AC3 of course. Using BD I can have uncompressed multi channel audio. I have done some tests and that sounds -much- better than the compressed AC3. (Yes, even coming from 8 track.)

My biggest problem is how to create a project with 7 x 200 elements! Not to mention all the other bits and pieces that are required.

Thanks for the additional ideas.

Paul Masters

mp3dom · 21st August 2011, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulemasters

Hello:
I have thought of using a slide show. But you can't 'jump' to a 'chapter' in a slide show.

Why not?

paulemasters · 21st August 2011, 18:04

Hello:

I use NetBlender DoStudio. On their forum responses to my questions and others say that you can't jump into a slide show - you have to start at the beginning. I am not sure about jumping around with in a slide show. I haven't tried it and I can't recall if that has been mentioned on the forum.
I realize that this may be how DSA is implemented and other authoring products may be different.

Sorry if I wasn't specific enough.

Paul Masters

mp3dom · 21st August 2011, 18:14

I've only made a test myself just now but I haven't compiled it, but seems possible. First of all, you mean browsable slideshow or timebased slideshow? I think the latter since every slide can have its own audio. As for timebased you can have one single file with all the slides or one file per slide. In both case, you can just populate your playlist and you can set new playitem (one file for all the slides) and playlistmarks/playitems (one file for every slide). Anyway as for MO commands, you have both PlayPLatPI and PlayPLatMK available, so at the end it should only be a matter of registers (for the 'chapter jump'). With PopUp menu you have PlayPI and PlayMK that both jump everywhere without closing PopUp.

lutinor · 21st August 2011, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulemasters

Hello:

I too want to make an audio BD. I have over 200 'tracks' in a number of 'albums' of discrete 4 channel 'surround' audio (from quad 8 track tapes!).
However, there is no audio only BD format in the spec. (Well, there is (Profile 3 or 4 I think) but it has never been 'official' and therefore no player supports it.) I think there is a company that will create an audio BD, but they want to do the work and I can't afford the cost - I am an individual and not doing this for profit.

I have thought of using a slide show. But you can't 'jump' to a 'chapter' in a slide show.

Using menus is interesting, I hadn't thought of that. However, remember that with BDJ or HDMV, menus have to have playing video to display on. (All menus in BD are 'pop up' so there is the image buffer limit to be aware of.)

I created an audio DVD using DVD LAB Pro and could get all 20 cartridges on 2 DVDs. It all would have fit on one but for the 99 title limit. That was with AC3 of course. Using BD I can have uncompressed multi channel audio. I have done some tests and that sounds -much- better than the compressed AC3. (Yes, even coming from 8 track.)

My biggest problem is how to create a project with 7 x 200 elements! Not to mention all the other bits and pieces that are required.

Thanks for the additional ideas.

Paul Masters

Mmmm wait wait. You are talking about image buffer. If i'm making 226 menu , it's like: 226 x 'menu length' CANT exceed 1 buffer limit ? Or you have 1 limit by each menu ? I'm actually authoring , if you can light me it will be very smart

mp3dom · 21st August 2011, 20:18

The buffer of 16MB is for every single IG (it can be one page or multipage, you anyway can't exceed 16 MB). One IG with 226 pages probably is too much to hold in only 16MB (unless you only use text, but I'm not sure too). You can try to design your menu and check how increase for every page you add with the Designer plugin.

lutinor · 21st August 2011, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp3dom

The buffer of 16MB is for every single IG (it can be one page or multipage, you anyway can't exceed 16 MB). One IG with 226 pages probably is too much to hold in only 16MB (unless you only use text, but I'm not sure too). You can try to design your menu and check how increase for every page you add with the Designer plugin.

Tbh i don't know how to multipage

I always use 1 page menu link to another menu and some button link to movies etc...

If you can explain how to multipage for 1 IG it will be good

mp3dom · 21st August 2011, 23:20

Multipage is like you probably already do for your PopUp menu. The only difference is that PopUp is flagged as 'Popup' (can be deactivated) while TopMenu is flagged as 'Always On' (so is always loaded at the beginning and cannot be hidden). I mean, the video in the background is always the same, you change only the IG page because you navigate into multiple pages. You do it with Designer adding more than one "P: <page>" layer in Photoshop. So, you're basically authoring in 'old-style dvd menu' (this explain your previous message about 'wait-time'). Not that you're obliged to do multipage. The choice is yours. In general there are advantages and disadvantages for both method, but with multipage the switch from one page to another is immediate as the IG is already fully loaded by the player. Also you have all of your menu in one single file that stays in one single Title.

paulemasters · 22nd August 2011, 16:59

mp3Dom:

I use NetBlender DoStudio. It only has timed slide show not browseable. But, for my purpose, neither would work using HDMV.
In HDMV you can not put commands at a chapter level. You can with BDJ. At least with DSA.
I need commands at chapter 'breaks' so I can play only one chapter at a time. With out them, you may start at a chapter, but the playback continues to the end of the playlist.
I have tested using an MO going to a Playlist mark (chapter), but there is a pause and blank screen. That's because the spec. allows the player to stop when changing a playlist. Apparently, for me anyway, that applies even if going back to the same playlist/title.

lutinor:
The image buffer in BDJ is much larger - 45mb for before profile 2 and 61mb for profile 2.

Also, I forgot to mention: If by using menus you mean to put the audio on a button (interesting idea that). Unfortunately, for me anyway, that audio can't be multi channel. And for both of us, the total size for those files is 4mb per disc.

Using menu pages instead of separate menus is faster. As mp3Dom says, the entire menu is loaded so switching pages is instantaneous. Otherwise you have to change titles/playlists and the player may stop when doing so which may cause a delay of 1-2 seconds and a blank screen.
The bad news is that menu pages are only for HDMV not BDJ, but on the other hand, the BDJ image buffer is much larger.

If you run into buffer problems here are some things that will help.
Put all items possible in the video that is playing behind the menu (for BDJ or HDMV). Including the normal state of the buttons. That way, only selected and active states are in the image buffer. Also, consider not using the active state as it goes by so fast it is usually not seen anyway - saving more buffer space. Don't use a background in the menu unless necessary - to reduce the buffer usage more.
Make the buttons as small as possible - transparent pixels take up buffer space. Remember that all buttons are rectangles even if what you see is not.
Think about using a graphic to indicate selected and active states - such as a check mark, dot or other image that is related to the material.

Hope this helps.

Paul Masters

lutinor · 22nd August 2011, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulemasters

mp3Dom:

I use NetBlender DoStudio. It only has timed slide show not browseable. But, for my purpose, neither would work using HDMV.
In HDMV you can not put commands at a chapter level. You can with BDJ. At least with DSA.
I need commands at chapter 'breaks' so I can play only one chapter at a time. With out them, you may start at a chapter, but the playback continues to the end of the playlist.
I have tested using an MO going to a Playlist mark (chapter), but there is a pause and blank screen. That's because the spec. allows the player to stop when changing a playlist. Apparently, for me anyway, that applies even if going back to the same playlist/title.

lutinor:
The image buffer in BDJ is much larger - 45mb for before profile 2 and 61mb for profile 2.

Also, I forgot to mention: If by using menus you mean to put the audio on a button (interesting idea that). Unfortunately, for me anyway, that audio can't be multi channel. And for both of us, the total size for those files is 4mb per disc.

Using menu pages instead of separate menus is faster. As mp3Dom says, the entire menu is loaded so switching pages is instantaneous. Otherwise you have to change titles/playlists and the player may stop when doing so which may cause a delay of 1-2 seconds and a blank screen.
The bad news is that menu pages are only for HDMV not BDJ, but on the other hand, the BDJ image buffer is much larger.

If you run into buffer problems here are some things that will help.
Put all items possible in the video that is playing behind the menu (for BDJ or HDMV). Including the normal state of the buttons. That way, only selected and active states are in the image buffer. Also, consider not using the active state as it goes by so fast it is usually not seen anyway - saving more buffer space. Don't use a background in the menu unless necessary - to reduce the buffer usage more.
Make the buttons as small as possible - transparent pixels take up buffer space. Remember that all buttons are rectangles even if what you see is not.
Think about using a graphic to indicate selected and active states - such as a check mark, dot or other image that is related to the material.

Hope this helps.

Paul Masters

In Scenarist, button are limited to 2 sec wav sound, so it doesn't work. I'm going to test multipage and maybe make a special topic about that cause it's not easy

@mp3dom : thx

mp3dom · 22nd August 2011, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulemasters

In HDMV you can not put commands at a chapter level. You can with BDJ. At least with DSA.

Ok I misunderstood your previous message. I thought you was referring about jump to a particular chapter of the slideshow from another menu and not a 'postcommand' after the end of the playback of one playitem.
That limitation is part of the specs. It's not possible in Scenarist too obviously (you can't do that even for a real movie as the commands are only at the MO level or IG level).

Quote:

Unfortunately, for me anyway, that audio can't be multi channel.

I think the limitation for a buttonsound is only wave, max 2MB and stereo.

A possible workaround can be to use more playlist (one playlist for every song) inside every title and use registers to playback the desired song and then return to the menu.

Something similar to
Into Topmenu IG:
Mov GPRx, 0/1/2/3/4/5/...
JumpTitle Title1

Into Title1 MO:
PlayPL GPRx
JumpTitle TopMenu

lutinor · 23rd August 2011, 20:49

I think i have found a 'good way' to do it.

The main menu is a menu where you can choose the album. Album 1 album 2 etc...Atm nothing special.

Let's say we go to Album 1. You go to a 'movie info screen' where you can see :

Song 1 : blabla
Song2 : blabla 2

On this video you have each song. Each song is a chapter. During the first 2 second of each chapter you hear the song name so you always know where you are in the big song addition.

If you want to go out from the album you goto main menu and etc...

What do you think ?

20th August 2011, 12:55	#1 \| Link
lutinor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 287	Audio compilation in Sonic Scenarist ? Hi all, I want to make something new for me. In Scenarist authoring, i can make menu with button. Some button launch a menu and some other launch a video. Nothing complicated, right ? Now my question : Is there a way to be in a menu and when you click on a button you launch an audio file WITHOUT menu exit ? I guess you see that i want to make a blueray audio compilation from my super audio cd (i like lossless audio). Thx in adv, Max.

21st August 2011, 18:14	#7 \| Link
mp3dom Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Posts: 1,135	I've only made a test myself just now but I haven't compiled it, but seems possible. First of all, you mean browsable slideshow or timebased slideshow? I think the latter since every slide can have its own audio. As for timebased you can have one single file with all the slides or one file per slide. In both case, you can just populate your playlist and you can set new playitem (one file for all the slides) and playlistmarks/playitems (one file for every slide). Anyway as for MO commands, you have both PlayPLatPI and PlayPLatMK available, so at the end it should only be a matter of registers (for the 'chapter jump'). With PopUp menu you have PlayPI and PlayMK that both jump everywhere without closing PopUp. Last edited by mp3dom; 21st August 2011 at 18:26.

20th August 2011, 16:50	#2 \| Link
mp3dom Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Posts: 1,135	I'm quite optimistic that you can do it if you have a still menu (not a video) in a similar way you would do it for DVD (with slideshow). As a video, I think you can't do it in a seamless way (when you press the button you go to a new movie that starts from the beginning). I think you can't enable/disable/change the audio in the same clip from beginning of the audio without affecting the video too.

21st August 2011, 17:18	#4 \| Link
paulemasters Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 12	Hello: I too want to make an audio BD. I have over 200 'tracks' in a number of 'albums' of discrete 4 channel 'surround' audio (from quad 8 track tapes!). However, there is no audio only BD format in the spec. (Well, there is (Profile 3 or 4 I think) but it has never been 'official' and therefore no player supports it.) I think there is a company that will create an audio BD, but they want to do the work and I can't afford the cost - I am an individual and not doing this for profit. I have thought of using a slide show. But you can't 'jump' to a 'chapter' in a slide show. Using menus is interesting, I hadn't thought of that. However, remember that with BDJ or HDMV, menus have to have playing video to display on. (All menus in BD are 'pop up' so there is the image buffer limit to be aware of.) I created an audio DVD using DVD LAB Pro and could get all 20 cartridges on 2 DVDs. It all would have fit on one but for the 99 title limit. That was with AC3 of course. Using BD I can have uncompressed multi channel audio. I have done some tests and that sounds -much- better than the compressed AC3. (Yes, even coming from 8 track.) My biggest problem is how to create a project with 7 x 200 elements! Not to mention all the other bits and pieces that are required. Thanks for the additional ideas. Paul Masters

21st August 2011, 18:04	#6 \| Link
paulemasters Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 12	Hello: I use NetBlender DoStudio. On their forum responses to my questions and others say that you can't jump into a slide show - you have to start at the beginning. I am not sure about jumping around with in a slide show. I haven't tried it and I can't recall if that has been mentioned on the forum. I realize that this may be how DSA is implemented and other authoring products may be different. Sorry if I wasn't specific enough. Paul Masters

21st August 2011, 20:18	#9 \| Link
mp3dom Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Posts: 1,135	The buffer of 16MB is for every single IG (it can be one page or multipage, you anyway can't exceed 16 MB). One IG with 226 pages probably is too much to hold in only 16MB (unless you only use text, but I'm not sure too). You can try to design your menu and check how increase for every page you add with the Designer plugin.

21st August 2011, 23:20	#11 \| Link
mp3dom Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Posts: 1,135	Multipage is like you probably already do for your PopUp menu. The only difference is that PopUp is flagged as 'Popup' (can be deactivated) while TopMenu is flagged as 'Always On' (so is always loaded at the beginning and cannot be hidden). I mean, the video in the background is always the same, you change only the IG page because you navigate into multiple pages. You do it with Designer adding more than one "P: <page>" layer in Photoshop. So, you're basically authoring in 'old-style dvd menu' (this explain your previous message about 'wait-time'). Not that you're obliged to do multipage. The choice is yours. In general there are advantages and disadvantages for both method, but with multipage the switch from one page to another is immediate as the IG is already fully loaded by the player. Also you have all of your menu in one single file that stays in one single Title.

22nd August 2011, 16:59	#12 \| Link
paulemasters Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 12	mp3Dom: I use NetBlender DoStudio. It only has timed slide show not browseable. But, for my purpose, neither would work using HDMV. In HDMV you can not put commands at a chapter level. You can with BDJ. At least with DSA. I need commands at chapter 'breaks' so I can play only one chapter at a time. With out them, you may start at a chapter, but the playback continues to the end of the playlist. I have tested using an MO going to a Playlist mark (chapter), but there is a pause and blank screen. That's because the spec. allows the player to stop when changing a playlist. Apparently, for me anyway, that applies even if going back to the same playlist/title. lutinor: The image buffer in BDJ is much larger - 45mb for before profile 2 and 61mb for profile 2. Also, I forgot to mention: If by using menus you mean to put the audio on a button (interesting idea that). Unfortunately, for me anyway, that audio can't be multi channel. And for both of us, the total size for those files is 4mb per disc. Using menu pages instead of separate menus is faster. As mp3Dom says, the entire menu is loaded so switching pages is instantaneous. Otherwise you have to change titles/playlists and the player may stop when doing so which may cause a delay of 1-2 seconds and a blank screen. The bad news is that menu pages are only for HDMV not BDJ, but on the other hand, the BDJ image buffer is much larger. If you run into buffer problems here are some things that will help. Put all items possible in the video that is playing behind the menu (for BDJ or HDMV). Including the normal state of the buttons. That way, only selected and active states are in the image buffer. Also, consider not using the active state as it goes by so fast it is usually not seen anyway - saving more buffer space. Don't use a background in the menu unless necessary - to reduce the buffer usage more. Make the buttons as small as possible - transparent pixels take up buffer space. Remember that all buttons are rectangles even if what you see is not. Think about using a graphic to indicate selected and active states - such as a check mark, dot or other image that is related to the material. Hope this helps. Paul Masters

23rd August 2011, 20:49	#15 \| Link
lutinor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 287	I think i have found a 'good way' to do it. The main menu is a menu where you can choose the album. Album 1 album 2 etc...Atm nothing special. Let's say we go to Album 1. You go to a 'movie info screen' where you can see : Song 1 : blabla Song2 : blabla 2 On this video you have each song. Each song is a chapter. During the first 2 second of each chapter you hear the song name so you always know where you are in the big song addition. If you want to go out from the album you goto main menu and etc... What do you think ?