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Old 15th October 2020, 07:29   #7821  |  Link
LeXXuz
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So many updates in the last couple of weeks/month. May I ask what version is recommended for daily use?
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Old 15th October 2020, 17:18   #7822  |  Link
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Can someone clear up why '--tune psnr' disables '--hevc-aq' ?

For detail how I come to this conclusion read:
https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1925877
https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1925878

Cu Selur

Ps.: also created an entry in the issue tracker (https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/...-why-tune-psnr)
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Old 15th October 2020, 20:36   #7823  |  Link
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I think this is the expected behavior for tune=psnr.
If I am not mistaken, it always disabled adaptive quantization and psy-rd.
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Old 16th October 2020, 00:22   #7824  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selur View Post
Can someone clear up why '--tune psnr' disables '--hevc-aq' ?
Because psnr is worse with --hevc-aq enabled?
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Old 16th October 2020, 07:12   #7825  |  Link
LigH
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Yes. Psycho-visual enhancements in general shall appear more convenient to a human, but will probably cause a bigger objective difference to the original.
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Old 16th October 2020, 21:00   #7826  |  Link
Selur
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Quote:
If I am not mistaken, it always disabled adaptive quantization and psy-rd.
But shouldn't "--tune psnr --hevc-aq" and "--aq-mode 0 --no-psy-rd --psy-rdoq 0 --hevc-aq" then not have the same effect?

Quote:
Because psnr is worse with --hevc-aq enabled?
but there shouldn't it be documented somewhere that "--tune psnr" disables "-hevc-aq" and "--aq-mode 0 --no-psy-rd --psy-rdoq 0" does not which according to https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/...mmon/param.cpp (line 566-571) is what psnr does?

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Old 19th October 2020, 17:16   #7827  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selur View Post
But shouldn't "--tune psnr --hevc-aq" and "--aq-mode 0 --no-psy-rd --psy-rdoq 0 --hevc-aq" then not have the same effect?

but there shouldn't it be documented somewhere that "--tune psnr" disables "-hevc-aq" and "--aq-mode 0 --no-psy-rd --psy-rdoq 0" does not which according to https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/...mmon/param.cpp (line 566-571) is what psnr does?
Neither SSIM or PSNR are the "native" internal metric used by x265. Thus turning off all psychovisual tuning doesn't push encoding into PNSR.

And a really aggressive PSNR optimization has lots of unfortunate side effects. For example, optimizing for mean PSNR would mean subjective quality would be higher at the start of a GOP and lower at the end, as getting really good references early improves the whole GOP, while encoding a lot of intra on the last B-frame doesn't.

Pretty much any metric winds up being increasingly pathological subjectively the more closely its objective values are optimized for. There are plenty of tricks that can be played with VMAF even.
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Old 20th October 2020, 07:31   #7828  |  Link
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This wasn't really about metrics, but about that shortening the command line using options '--tune psnr' should cover has unexpected effects,..

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Old 20th October 2020, 07:53   #7829  |  Link
LigH
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x264 --fullhelp
Code:
      --tune <string>         Tune the settings for a particular type of source
                              or situation
                                  Overridden by user settings.
                                  Multiple tunings are separated by commas.
                                  Only one psy tuning can be used at a time.
...
                                  - psnr (psy tuning):
                                    --aq-mode 0 --no-psy
...
x265 --fullhelp is not as verbose. More information only online (see blue Note).

Would you like some kind of x265 [info|warning]: PSNR tuning may result in subjectively lower quality console output?
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Old 20th October 2020, 16:06   #7830  |  Link
Selur
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According to the x265 source code:
Code:
 if (!strcmp(tune, "psnr"))
        {
            param->rc.aqStrength = 0.0;
            param->psyRd = 0.0;
            param->psyRdoq = 0.0;
        }
source: https://bitbucket.org/multicoreware/...mmon/param.cpp
"--tune psr" should be the same as using "--aq-strength 0 --no-psy-rd --psy-rdoq 0"
"--aq-strength 0" is the same as "--aq-mode 0" and "--psy-rdoq" shouldn't be used when "--no-psy-rd" is used
so:
1.
Code:
--aq-mode 0 --psy-rdoq 0 --hevc-aq
should have the same effect as:
2.
Code:
--psnr --hevc-aq
which is has not.
When using 1. --hevc-aq is used, but with 2. it is not;
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Old 20th October 2020, 17:21   #7831  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selur View Post
so:
1.
Code:
--aq-mode 0 --psy-rdoq 0 --hevc-aq
should have the same effect as:
2.
Code:
--psnr --hevc-aq
which is has not.
When using 1. --hevc-aq is used, but with 2. it is not;
typo?

--tune psnr is not the same thing as --psnr

--psnr just calculates metrics
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Old 20th October 2020, 17:43   #7832  |  Link
LigH
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Surely Selur meant --tune psnr
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Old 20th October 2020, 19:04   #7833  |  Link
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yes I meant '--tune psnr'
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Old 20th October 2020, 20:57   #7834  |  Link
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I agree, --hevc-aq is a new option that is and should be turned off by --tune psnr. The documentation simply needs updating to let the user know --tune psnr will turn it off like the other AQ options.
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Old 22nd October 2020, 20:13   #7835  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I agree, --hevc-aq is a new option that is and should be turned off by --tune psnr. The documentation simply needs updating to let the user know --tune psnr will turn it off like the other AQ options.
--hevc-aq is a terrible parameter, as it introduces a lot of unneeded interdependency with other parameters. If it was just --aq-mode 5 everything would just work.
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Old 25th October 2020, 16:56   #7836  |  Link
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Quote:
If it was just --aq-mode 5 everything would just work.
agree
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:39   #7837  |  Link
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Has anyone made any comprehensive tests regarding the various rskip modes? I was just thinking if CPU time is not a factor, would --rskip 0 always produce the highest quality output, no matter if it's a high or low bitrate encode. Rskip mode 2 clearly produces less onion artifacts compared to mode 1 but I'm not sure if allowing full recursion would bring any improvement.

This question arises because I'm always having a hard time trying to understand what the x265 development is targeting. It often seems to be trying to do more things at very low bitrates, which usually means losing detail etc. while my needs are quite the opposite.
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Old 9th November 2020, 20:01   #7838  |  Link
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Has anyone an idea how i can make a single layer DV Encode? I mean, if i have both layers, HDR10 and DV - how can i encode one single Layer DV file, in case how makeMKV does this? I have seen an single Layer DV x265 Encode, so i think there is a functionality.

Many Thanks for response.
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Old 10th November 2020, 08:52   #7839  |  Link
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What does "DV" mean in this context?
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Old 10th November 2020, 17:42   #7840  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -QfG- View Post
Has anyone an idea how i can make a single layer DV Encode? I mean, if i have both layers, HDR10 and DV - how can i encode one single Layer DV file, in case how makeMKV does this? I have seen an single Layer DV x265 Encode, so i think there is a functionality.

Many Thanks for response.
I am going to guess your talking about DolbyVision. As per makeMKV forum, you would use mp4 muxer, instructions at https://makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18602

mp4muxer --dv-profile 7 --input-file (baselayername.hevc1) --input-file (dvlayername.hevc2) --input-file (audio.ac3) --media-lang eng --output-file (nameofmovie).mp4
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