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13th December 2021, 17:36 | #62481 | Link |
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bt1886 is a compromise made for LCDs. 2.4pure power is the studio standard.
Mastering sdr at 2.2 depends on the delivery target, if it's pc games internet, usually 2.2 Major studio movies were usually by the book 2.4, but because different targets increased over time, they've put out special grades for each.
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13th December 2021, 18:03 | #62482 | Link |
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My impression is PC games are mostly 2.4, though of course there are examples pointing the other way or having terrible clipping also with 2.2 due to bad tone mapping/lack of indirect light etc.
Also seems distinction between relative and absolute gamma once again is rather theoretical? At least I don't see any difference with 3D LUTs created accordingly. |
13th December 2021, 18:59 | #62485 | Link |
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They wouldn't need colorimetry if there was no difference.
It's ok to say there's no "Correct" Gamma. So, 2.2/2.4 are equally correct. However, there is a "preferred" pipeline. 2.4pure Bt1886 looks like trash in the majority of cases, so just ignore it.
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13th December 2021, 20:50 | #62486 | Link | |
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Quote:
if you master for bt 1886 you master for 2.4 because you have a 0 black on a high end mastering display. they may aim for bt 1886 but they don't master at it well they do by using 2.4 kind of. it can be lower than 2.2 not that it matters here. easily looking really really bad. what so ever the new gamma spec is bt 1886 and you are supposed to use it with new masters. |
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14th December 2021, 02:44 | #62488 | Link |
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When you say no more update, it depends on what you're looking for. Right now madvr is being updated periodically with improvements to HDR tone mapping. Other than that, no, there's no updates.
As for "better" renderer, that's highly subjective.
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14th December 2021, 03:11 | #62490 | Link |
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14th December 2021, 06:08 | #62491 | Link | |
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Naaah.. .
Quote:
You can also fake black level in DisplayCal on calibration tab to see this in a greater effect.
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Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v398.18),Win10 LTSC 1809,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED77G2(2160p@23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz) | madvr config Last edited by chros; 14th December 2021 at 06:11. |
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14th December 2021, 15:40 | #62492 | Link |
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14th December 2021, 19:10 | #62494 | Link |
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He decided to work on HDR tone mapping quite a few years ago (at this point) and was involved in the AVS forum thread. Then the Envy happened which has taken the majority of his time and focus. He's continuing to update the AVS forum with new HDR tone mapping beta builds in an effort to improve quality for the Envy and to give the madvr community access to newer builds. But for the most part, they are ONLY focused on HDR tone mapping and do not include anything else. Whether or not that changes after HDR tone mapping is "complete" is anyone's guess.
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14th December 2021, 20:59 | #62495 | Link |
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Regarding the 2.4 gamma debate, the reality is that gamma was poorly standardised as the Bt.1886 standard didn't even exist until 2011 and lots of content was made before that.
Before 2011 the convention seemed to be just a 2.4 power law -- although it was never officially standardised -- but different room lighting conditions can call for a different gamma to get the same looking image (eg. 2.2 for daylit room) due to a visual effect called simultaneous contrast. Sources: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...3-I!!PDF-E.pdf https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ot_...Y_uflNQQf/view https://app.spectracal.com/Documents...0_2.2or2.4.pdf http://poynton.ca/PDFs/GammaFAQ.pdf Here I've plotted Bt.1886 with 120nits white and 0.05nits black which produces a curve similar to sRGB. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MI...rs4S89Vgy1t2Y4 So if a movie was mastered on the above bt.1886 curve then it will look wrong on a 2.4 power law monitor, and vice versa. For a good balance I target 2.4 power law but with black raised to make 1% or 2% grey visible. Then for daytime viewing I'll shift the whole curve down to 2.2. I wrote an app called Calibration Tools which can do this automatically and gradually during the twilight period according to your GPS coordinates. But it's still not a great solution as ambient lighting isn't consistent due to unpredictable cloud cover causing different room lighting on different days. A proper solution needs an ambient light sensor, however updating the video card gamma table regularly with new values can cause dropped frames which would happen every time ambient light changed. Last edited by flossy_cake; 14th December 2021 at 21:04. |
14th December 2021, 22:00 | #62498 | Link |
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Thanks for Calibration Tools, flossy_cake. This tool should really be more widely known, the dither control with Nvidia or the override setting (helpful with some D3D9 games) add up nicely! Too bad Windows is so stupid and still (more or less) randomly breaks color precision for GPU gamma ramps. Microsoft's incompetence is just breathtaking...
I think your recommendation makes sense, 2.4 absolute gamma with 99% black output offset seems to be a good compromise. With 100%, gamma test picture in some games (Doom Eternal or Witcher 3) can be a bit hard to identify. chros, thanks for linking your post. I'll definitely give it a read. |
15th December 2021, 10:28 | #62500 | Link | |
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Quote:
I'm not sure if this is what aufkrawall meant by "99% black output offset". Last edited by flossy_cake; 15th December 2021 at 10:30. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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