Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th July 2015, 23:58   #31961  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
How do you expect madshi to react? Believe 20 other people that say A looks more satisfying and agree with madshi's findings or with 2-3 other people that don't agree, but they also don't show why they don't agree
It's 4 guys(or was it 6?) that got HQ forced and barely anyone reported on the 0.19 SR options IIRC so your "20 other people" seems pretty far stretched.

I tried yesterday late at night on my usual 720p material and this afternoon again on different kinds of SD material just to be sure that my impressions didn't change and then I saw that post that pretty much synthesized exactly what I saw so I thought I would +1 it, nothing more.

I also came to the conclusion this afternoon that sxbr+AS seem to look equally good(or even better?) than SR in .15 with 3@0.42 but I would need to finetune their strengths(sxbr75+AS 0.5 atm), madshi made clear that SR would take a route I'm not interested in so again I can either give up on SR altogether(as it's literalling been going downhill since .16 for me) or remain stuck in .15-land. I haven't really decided yet, yes it takes several test sessions on different kinds of material before making a decision.

If I had access to the script as a text file or could fire up SR from PotPlayer as a PS script, this wouldn't be much of a hassle but I do realize that madshi's work on mVR is already a gift, he's not too keen on sharing his work with the competition, he primarly codes mVR for his own use and he's already extremely kind to share it with us...so I need to adapt my needs to what he's willing to offer(and PQ is stellar anyway ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Huh? This release re-introduced "HQ off" for you. I'm confused how that would kill SuperRes for you? Instead of saying "thank you" for adding a tweak *just for you*, you continue to whine, and you don't do screenshots, as I asked you to multiple times already. You're not very motivating atm.
Yes my bad where are my manners sorry, TYVM for taking the time to make the change . I sure would fancy the same kind of kludge to change the sxbr strength to be honest ^^

I wasn't able to use versions since .16 due to HQ SR being forced so I'm basically going from .15 to .19 and yes this new build is a total show stopper for me as far as SR is concerned, HQ or not.

Screenshots? I'm sure you did a whole bunch of them when deciding that HQ=off looks horrible to you? Or did you toggle it while playing movie content? My point is that for all I know screenshots wouldn't prove anything and I would waste hours looking at microscopic pixels differences. It really only matters in motion IMHO and the differences I'm seeing are not content dependent to the least. At the end of the day what matters if that SR looks good to you and that I can also keep on being stunned by mVR, I seem willing to give up on SR as our views towards it would appear to drastically diverge. No worries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I've already told you that if that is your opinion, I want proof, in the form of screenshots. Put up or shut up!!
Oh totally, I was only +1 another post so the guy wouldn't be alone in the middle of the ocean of posts here and considered to be a misfit of some kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I hope that at least some of those stuttering issues are resolved now
I definitely got random stuttering while seeking with .19 in PotP that didn't occur with .15 on W7SP1/HD7850/13.12/8bit DX9, will try the new build then


Last edited by leeperry; 20th July 2015 at 02:10.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 00:13   #31962  |  Link
Nevilne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 134
So you literally can't show any proof
Nevilne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 01:23   #31963  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 445
madshi, I took debug logs for the 'repeated frames show very old frames' thing, comparing d3d9 and d3d11 windowed mode, though I don't know if they show anything. Just let me know when you have time to look at them.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 01:23   #31964  |  Link
tFWo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Can you show a couple of screenshots which show why you prefer HQ off? Please post the original image (PNG is fine) together with the upscaled & SuperRes'ed results. The original image is important, so we can reproduce your results here, and maybe fine tune the algorithm. Thanks!
I'm off on vacation for next two weeks so I'm doing this at the last moment before going.

original
http://www84.zippyshare.com/v/CDsDqi9P/file.html

hq strength 1 radius 0.70
http://abload.de/img/seventhhqjpjxy.png

nohq strength 1 radius 0.70
http://abload.de/img/seventhnohqaejzk.png

It's hard to compare because strength 1 for nohq is too strong.

As I said radius does help. But HQ still has that almost softer than original look with slight ringing around numbers. White is spilled into black area, black is spilled into white area.

NoHQ doesn't have that problem even on higher strengths. But as I said even strength 1 is too strong for my taste.
tFWo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 01:42   #31965  |  Link
Deim0s
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Everyone who had *new* problems, introduced by v0.88.17, please test this new build and let me know if your problems are fixed.
I have problems with builds after 0.88.16.
Examples and dump below:
OSD (SD MPEG-2)
dump

OSD (720p - presentation glitches when step forward/backward)
dump

Win 7 SP1 Pro x64
ASUS GTX770 2Gb
ASUS VG278H 120 Hz
MPC-HC x64 latest nightly build
LAV x64 latest nightly build
Deim0s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 02:37   #31966  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevilne View Post
So you literally can't show any proof
I don't think you've been here on enough to know quite how Max's testing methodology works..

His super vision defies all screenshot proof justifying it. He sees things us mere mortals cannot.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 02:48   #31967  |  Link
jewshawn2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3
madVR / Potplayer / OBS broken since v0.88.17

I am reporting a bug that was introduced since v0.88.17.

In order for OBS (Open Broadcaster Software) to capture video in Potplayer with madVR, you have to use "Game Capture" source. I was told by someone on the OBS forum that this uses OpenGL to capture video. And it is the only method to capture video with madVR as the renderer.

Since v0.88.17 video capture using OBS (both versions) and Potplayer causes unwatchable jittery/stuttering video. The video looks perfectly fine on screen. But the OBS capture window shows jittery video. v0.88.16 was the last release that worked fine.

The bug can be reproduce on both of my PCs using the default madVR settings and default PotPlayer settings. However, if I use a different video player like MPC-HC x64 or bsplayer with madVR the video capture in OBS is fine. But when I adjust volume level the OSD causes stuttering video in the capture window.

I don't expect this bug report to get a lot of attention since it's very specific but I still wanted to report it for documentation purposes. I hope other forums members can reproduce the bug and verify my claims.

These were the changes introduced to madVR, perhaps one of these changes broke functionality between madVR, Potplayer, and OBS:
v0.88.17
* madVR now renders in paused and stopped mode, too
* added automatic OSD low latency logic
* added SuperRes anti-ringing filter
* fixed little SuperRes quality detoriation introduced in v0.88.16
* fixed: high GPU consumption in paused mode (PotPlayer, Kodi DSPlayer)
* all (useful) IVideoWindow APIs now work even when no pins are connected

My setup:

madVR v0.88.17 thru v0.88.20

x64 bit Potplayer [1.6.55124] 2015/07/10

x64 OBS Multiplatform 0.11.1

x64 OBS Original 0.652b

x64 Win 7 / Nvidia 8800 GTS

Last edited by jewshawn2; 20th July 2015 at 11:42.
jewshawn2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 02:59   #31968  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
He sees things us mere mortals cannot.
I guess tFWo hit the nail for me but nice try buddy, I didn't care enough to bother trying that's all...especially when strength 1 is already so darn sharp with HQ off making screenshots comparisons most shaky.

I mean how anyone could prefer HQ enabled is already beyond my comprehension and I'm running a Sammy LED LCD TV, the biggest sales on the market by far AFAIK. It doesn't take a screenshot for either me or tFWo to see that we hate HQ, but maybe he also has supervision I'll give you that
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 04:19   #31969  |  Link
James Freeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.88.20 released

Code:
* changed OSD rendering logic all over again
Everyone who had *new* problems, introduced by v0.88.17, please test this new build and let me know if your problems are fixed.
Sorry, problem still exists.
Testing with full power (P0 state) to avoid misinterpretation of the stuttering,
D3D11, FSE, still has unreported stuttering, Only in FSE.
All other modes are OK.

Overlay is fixed in this one.
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410.
James Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 05:02   #31970  |  Link
Akeno
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
I guess tFWo hit the nail for me but nice try buddy, I didn't care enough to bother trying that's all...especially when strength 1 is already so darn sharp with HQ off making screenshots comparisons most shaky.

I mean how anyone could prefer HQ enabled is already beyond my comprehension and I'm running a Sammy LED LCD TV, the biggest sales on the market by far AFAIK. It doesn't take a screenshot for either me or tFWo to see that we hate HQ, but maybe he also has supervision I'll give you that
Offtopic: You seem to have a problem understanding that people have different preferences than you. You've failed to provide any evidence to justify your claims and madashi still gave you the option to disable HQ. Don't just piggyback on tFWo's work while acting superior about it.

Ontopic: Are their any benefits to using madVR x64 over x32? ReClock doesn't have an x64 version but I'm starting to seriously wonder if I'm just wasting resources as I don't use the media speedup/down option and I'm satisfied with just feeding audio through DirectSound.
Akeno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 05:11   #31971  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akeno View Post
Offtopic: You seem to have a problem understanding that people have different preferences than you. You've failed to provide any evidence to justify your claims and madashi still gave you the option to disable HQ. Don't just piggyback on tFWo's work while acting superior about it.
If it's import enough to him he'll make the effort. He's certainly aware he has special preferences. Madshi deals with the requests appropriately so don't worry about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akeno View Post
Ontopic: Are their any benefits to using madVR x64 over x32? ReClock doesn't have an x64 version but I'm starting to seriously wonder if I'm just wasting resources as I don't use the media speedup/down option and I'm satisfied with just feeding audio through DirectSound.
There are benefits on the performance side of things. If you're potentially ditching reclock and have no other 32 bit filters active then definitely move to 64 bit.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 06:43   #31972  |  Link
JohnLai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 448
Got a new display and trying to create a 3DLUT using madTPG + dispcalGUI + Argyll.

Have a problem here.....
First, I run madTPG with 'stay on top' + 'use fullscreen + disable videluts + disable 3dluts.
I specifically make sure the 'Image Area' slider is moved to the right max 100%. (So that the tiny gray box is way larger.) 'Background' slider is moved to left max 1%.


Then, I run dispcalGUI and set up stuff normally, finally click 'calibrate and profile'.

madTPG finally runs its pattern in full screen.....but the color square patches is way too small in the middle of screen? I thought I already set the image area slider to max size? Is this a known bug?

EDIT: there is 'ArgyllCMS Patches' being displayed at top left corner of the screen. The patches are very small and I noticed the 'image area' slider being reset back to 1%

EDIT2 : each time madTPG loads new batch of patches from displaygui, the 'image area' slider being reset to 1%

EDIT3 : Any idea to keep the 'image area' from being reset?

EDIT4 : Found this -P0.5,0.5,10,10 argument for dispcal, but after 3rd or 4th batch of patches, it resets back to 1% again.

Last edited by JohnLai; 20th July 2015 at 08:35.
JohnLai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 07:37   #31973  |  Link
Siso
Registered User
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akeno View Post
New bug with the 88.20. Seems like the OSD is reporting incorrect render times. Render time is lower than what it was in previous updates with the exact same settings (I'm not using SuperRes). It reports even lower render times when I go from NNEDI3 16 -> 32 but the dropped frames and presentation glitches counter begin to rise.
+1 for the incorrect render times, seems overlay mode is fixed tho
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 09:31   #31974  |  Link
sneaker_ger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,451
My back-forth jumping problems in window mode (old path) appear to be fixed by v0.88.20.
sneaker_ger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 14:01   #31975  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akeno View Post
New bug with the 88.20. Seems like the OSD is reporting incorrect render times. Render time is lower than what it was in previous updates with the exact same settings (I'm not using SuperRes). It reports even lower render times when I go from NNEDI3 16 -> 32 but the dropped frames and presentation glitches counter begin to rise.
Ok, will have a look at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
I also came to the conclusion this afternoon that sxbr+AS seem to look equally good(or even better?) than SR in .15 with 3@0.42
If you remember, I actually told you that you should try AdaptiveSharpen if you liked the look of LQ SuperRes, because AdaptiveSharpen and LQ SuperRes have a similar look. But then you replied with:

> I'm not interested in running another sharpening filter
> on top but thanks for the advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
My point is that for all I know screenshots wouldn't prove anything and I would waste hours looking at microscopic pixels differences.
Different sharpening algorithms and HQ vs LQ SuperRes produce quite noticable differences, if you use a sharp image for testing. Easy to see in screenshots for everybody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
madshi, I took debug logs for the 'repeated frames show very old frames' thing, comparing d3d9 and d3d11 windowed mode, though I don't know if they show anything. Just let me know when you have time to look at them.
I'll let you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tFWo View Post
I'm off on vacation for next two weeks so I'm doing this at the last moment before going.

original
http://www84.zippyshare.com/v/CDsDqi9P/file.html

hq strength 1 radius 0.70
http://abload.de/img/seventhhqjpjxy.png

nohq strength 1 radius 0.70
http://abload.de/img/seventhnohqaejzk.png

It's hard to compare because strength 1 for nohq is too strong.

As I said radius does help. But HQ still has that almost softer than original look with slight ringing around numbers. White is spilled into black area, black is spilled into white area.

NoHQ doesn't have that problem even on higher strengths. But as I said even strength 1 is too strong for my taste.
Yeah, thanks for the screenshots. One problem with such screenshots is that we don't really know what to shoot for. How *should* the image really look like? Ideally we would have a high resolution version of the same image, so we can double check which of the upscaling algos and sharpening/post-processing algos comes nearest to the high res version. Since we don't have that, judging which image looks better is highly subjective. I can see that the LQ (= noHQ) version looks noticeably sharper, but also introduces the typical "sharpened" look, like Unsharp Masking, AdaptiveSharpen, LumaSharpen etc do. Which is a look I don't like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deim0s View Post
I have problems with builds after 0.88.16.
Examples and dump below:
OSD (SD MPEG-2)
dump

OSD (720p - presentation glitches when step forward/backward)
dump

Win 7 SP1 Pro x64
ASUS GTX770 2Gb
ASUS VG278H 120 Hz
MPC-HC x64 latest nightly build
LAV x64 latest nightly build
Does that still occur with v0.88.20?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewshawn2 View Post
I am reporting a bug that was introduced since v0.88.17.

In order for OBS (Open Broadcaster Software) to capture video in Potplayer with madVR, you have to use "Game Capture" source. I was told by someone on the OBS forum that this uses OpenGL to capture video. And it is the only method to capture video with madVR as the renderer.

Since v0.88.17 video capture using OBS (both versions) and Potplayer causes unwatchable jittery/stuttering video. The video looks perfectly fine on screen. But the OBS capture window shows jittery video. v0.88.16 was the last release that worked fine.

The bug can be reproduce on both of my PCs using the default madVR settings and default PotPlayer settings. However, if I use a different video player like MPC-HC x64 or bsplayer with madVR the video capture in OBS is fine. But when I adjust volume level the OSD causes stuttering video in the capture window.

I don't expect this bug report to get a lot of attention since it's very specific but I still wanted to report it for documentation purposes. I hope other forums members can reproduce the bug and verify my claims.

These were the changes introduced to madVR, perhaps one of these changes broke functionality between madVR, Potplayer, and OBS:
v0.88.17
* madVR now renders in paused and stopped mode, too
* added automatic OSD low latency logic
* added SuperRes anti-ringing filter
* fixed little SuperRes quality detoriation introduced in v0.88.16
* fixed: high GPU consumption in paused mode (PotPlayer, Kodi DSPlayer)
* all (useful) IVideoWindow APIs now work even when no pins are connected

My setup:

madVR v0.88.17 thru v0.88.20

x64 bit Potplayer [1.6.55124] 2015/07/10

x64 OBS Multiplatform 0.11.1

x64 OBS Original 0.652b

x64 Win 7 / Nvidia 8800 GTS
I see. I think this is likely to be a bug in OBS. But maybe I can find a solution, nevertheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Sorry, problem still exists.
Testing with full power (P0 state) to avoid misinterpretation of the stuttering,
D3D11, FSE, still has unreported stuttering, Only in FSE.
All other modes are OK.
Ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLai View Post
Got a new display and trying to create a 3DLUT using madTPG + dispcalGUI + Argyll.

Have a problem here.....
First, I run madTPG with 'stay on top' + 'use fullscreen + disable videluts + disable 3dluts.
I specifically make sure the 'Image Area' slider is moved to the right max 100%. (So that the tiny gray box is way larger.) 'Background' slider is moved to left max 1%.


Then, I run dispcalGUI and set up stuff normally, finally click 'calibrate and profile'.

madTPG finally runs its pattern in full screen.....but the color square patches is way too small in the middle of screen? I thought I already set the image area slider to max size? Is this a known bug?

EDIT: there is 'ArgyllCMS Patches' being displayed at top left corner of the screen. The patches are very small and I noticed the 'image area' slider being reset back to 1%

EDIT2 : each time madTPG loads new batch of patches from displaygui, the 'image area' slider being reset to 1%

EDIT3 : Any idea to keep the 'image area' from being reset?

EDIT4 : Found this -P0.5,0.5,10,10 argument for dispcal, but after 3rd or 4th batch of patches, it resets back to 1% again.
madTPG has APIs that allow the calibration software to control all aspects of madTPG. It seems that ArgyllCMS/dispcal overwrite the "image area" choice you've made in the madTPG GUI. There's nothing I can do about that. You would have to talk to the ArgyllCMS/dispcal developers. I'm sorry, I wish I could be more helpful. But if the calibration software uses the APIs then I must obey. Otherwise the APIs would serve no purpose.

Generally, for ArgyllCMS/dispcal related topics, your best thread for support is this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...argyllcms.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
My back-forth jumping problems in window mode (old path) appear to be fixed by v0.88.20.
Cool, at least some good news.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 14:17   #31976  |  Link
ashlar42
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 413
Hi madshi, thanks for all the incredible work you offer for free to us all.

Do you have an ETA of sort (asking about months time range, not specific dates) for rendering subtitles on black bars? I love madVR quality but yesterday, while watching a 2:35 movie I really missed the opportunity to shift the subs where they wouldn't bother the picture.

Thanks.
ashlar42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 14:18   #31977  |  Link
JohnLai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

madTPG has APIs that allow the calibration software to control all aspects of madTPG. It seems that ArgyllCMS/dispcal overwrite the "image area" choice you've made in the madTPG GUI. There's nothing I can do about that. You would have to talk to the ArgyllCMS/dispcal developers. I'm sorry, I wish I could be more helpful. But if the calibration software uses the APIs then I must obey. Otherwise the APIs would serve no purpose.

Generally, for ArgyllCMS/dispcal related topics, your best thread for support is this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...argyllcms.html
When 'use fullscreen' of madtpg is disabled, the 'image area' slider doesn't get reset at all.

This is weird....
I was able to finish calibration on 3 monitors without the 'image area' getting reset to 1% if the madtpg 'use fullscreen' is disabled.
JohnLai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 14:45   #31978  |  Link
baii
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
Hi madshi, thanks for all the incredible work you offer for free to us all.

Do you have an ETA of sort (asking about months time range, not specific dates) for rendering subtitles on black bars? I love madVR quality but yesterday, while watching a 2:35 movie I really missed the opportunity to shift the subs where they wouldn't bother the picture.

Thanks.
Use mpc-hc build in sub renderer(or renderer other than xysub filter) as a current work around. It don't have all the fancy feature though ~
baii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 15:17   #31979  |  Link
XMonarchY
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 489
I am confused about SR HQ settings. Which SR settings are considered HQ for both Chroma Upscaling and Upscaling Refinement? At the moment, I set Chroma Upscaling SR to passes = 4, strength = 1, softness = 0, then I set Upscaling Refinement SR to strength = 1 and radious = 0.66. Are the SR settings I just listed using considered HQ? I do not use any sharpening through madVR because I am kind of forced to use TV's slight sharpening, considering my setup.
__________________
8700K @ 5Ghz | ASUS Z370 Hero X | Corsair 16GB @ 3200Mhz | RTX 2080 Ti @ 2100Mhz | Samsung 970 NVMe 250GB | WD Black 2TB | Corsair AX 850W | LG 32GK850G-B @ 165Hz | Xonar DGX | Windows 10 LTSC 1809
XMonarchY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2015, 16:22   #31980  |  Link
Deim0s
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Does that still occur with v0.88.20?
Yes. In v0.88.20, performance is even worse than *18, *19.
Deim0s is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.