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Old 5th May 2018, 23:19   #50701  |  Link
Asmodian
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Oh, I agree. It would be better to have SDR modes still output 10 bit in fullscreen windowed, it was simply much worse to output 10 bit HDR in fullscreen windowed with an Nvidia GPU and this was a very quick fix.

madshi's fix was too simple but there are probably a lot more users using HDR passthrough than those that get a real benefit from 10 bit (sorry you are one of the few). Almost everyone with an HDR display is going to be using an HDR output mode because otherwise the display does not even enable its HDR mode. The only reason to use SDR output with HDR content is if you do not have an HDR display, or in your very special case with custom tone mapping that assumes HDR content in what the OS and drivers treat as SDR. They are also very likely to enable 10 bit because HDR displays support it and of course 10 is better. I have seen a lot of users with LG or Samsung HDR TVs and Nvidia GPUs in this thread.

I am not saying your case is bad, or even pointless. We want the best quality possible at all times. madVR should enable 10 bit output for fullscreen windowed anytime it is not using Nvidia's HDR API. I was simply pointing out that 10 bit is subtle enough that most people can only notice it in the OSD, not in the image, even with true 10 bit panels.

Comparing 6 bit dithering to 8 bit dithering is a good way for anyone to get an idea of the difference even without a proper 10 bit panel and 6 to 8 bit is a MUCH more significant difference compared to 8 to 10 bit. Seeing the noise due to static 8 bit ordered dithering done in linear light is... tricky, it does affect the image quality but it is very hard to see.

If this does affect you negatively you have to use FSE or an older version of madVR for now.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 5th May 2018 at 23:23.
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Old 6th May 2018, 00:02   #50702  |  Link
VincAlastor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrindor View Post
I reported this when Windows 10 1803 was still an insider build but it seems it's still an issue.

I have upgraded two computers to Windows 10 1803 and both of them now have an issue where the video freezes for about 2-5 seconds whenever entering exclusive fullscreen mode. Downgrading back to the previous version of Windows 10 fixes it on both computers.

Titan XP, latest NVIDIA drivers/MadVR/MPC-BE. Default settings everywhere for testing.
I have to confirm. Please fix.
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Old 6th May 2018, 03:44   #50703  |  Link
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Hey guys, kind of dumb question that may have already been answered. But for bitmap subtitles played back from a DVD source, is there any way to skip upscaling of the subtitles and leave them untouched? They seem to get upscaled along with the image. Which kind of makes the text look pretty smudgy.
Just curious.
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Old 6th May 2018, 04:27   #50704  |  Link
Clammerz
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But for bitmap subtitles played back from a DVD source, is there any way to skip upscaling of the subtitles and leave them untouched?
Are you sure you want them at their original size? They are minuscule. You likely won't be able to read them at their original size.

VobSub had a cool option back in the day to "vectorize" bitmap subtitles. It sometimes broke but when it worked it was so good. I don't think anything offers that anymore.
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Old 6th May 2018, 04:52   #50705  |  Link
Oguignant
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someone has problems with Windows 10 1803 update? Something strange happens after the update on my laptop, the render times droped from 16 ms to 10 or 12 ms (2k upscaling to 4k), I know, it's a good thing, but it seems very strange to me. Usually after an update of MS, things never get better ... I checked all the Madvr settings and they are the same as yesterday ...

Example 4k HDR window modem downscaling

BEFORE UPDATE


AFTER UPDATE
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Last edited by Oguignant; 6th May 2018 at 05:14.
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Old 6th May 2018, 05:22   #50706  |  Link
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Rendering times are near meaningless without knowing the clock speeds. Maybe things are more efficient, don't know.

Last edited by ryrynz; 6th May 2018 at 05:24.
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Old 6th May 2018, 05:29   #50707  |  Link
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Rendering times are near meaningless without knowing the clock speeds. Maybe things are more efficient, don't know.
the clock speeds are the same in before and after update. I do not change anything in the hardware configuration or settings.
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Old 6th May 2018, 06:07   #50708  |  Link
Asmodian
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I get lower rendering times reported too but I cannot push my settings higher. Now I start getting dropped frames at rendering times much lower than the frame time. I think this a change in the rendering time's measurement, not a change in performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown shoes View Post
It does make me wonder though about a lot of the current high end sets that say they are 10 bit, but are actually 8bit + FRC, which as I understand it is dithering at the TV end. In this scenario are we best off sending 8bit from MadVR or 10 bit and above?
This is entirely dependent on the display. If is has a good internal pathway that preserves madVR's dithering in 10 bit until the panel, and its FRC algorithm is good, it can be better to send it 10 bit. Most of my displays have not been ulta high end and have not done 10 bit better than 8 bit. I did have a 10 bit monitor that had a very good 10 bit pathway, at least as far as I could determine in testing, and it was an 8 bit + FRC panel.
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Old 6th May 2018, 06:57   #50709  |  Link
MrBonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clammerz View Post
Are you sure you want them at their original size? They are minuscule. You likely won't be able to read them at their original size.

VobSub had a cool option back in the day to "vectorize" bitmap subtitles. It sometimes broke but when it worked it was so good. I don't think anything offers that anymore.
No, tiny text is not good. Was just hoping they could be upscaled separately maybe using a more pleasant algorithm for text.
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Old 6th May 2018, 08:00   #50710  |  Link
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I'm assuming you did, but did you make sure you selected a different refresh rate than the one you are trying to customize (e.g. anything besides 23hz?).
Yes, I'm applying customized 23hz refresh rate while in 60hz mode.
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Old 6th May 2018, 17:02   #50711  |  Link
el Filou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
If is has a good internal pathway that preserves madVR's dithering in 10 bit until the panel, and its FRC algorithm is good, it can be better to send it 10 bit.
Wait, do you mean FRC can look better or even as good than madVR's dithering? I thought FRC always showed artifacts in some situations and it was best avoided if you could (of course in 6-bit TN panels you can't).
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Old 6th May 2018, 18:15   #50712  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Wait, do you mean FRC can look better or even as good than madVR's dithering? I thought FRC always showed artifacts in some situations and it was best avoided if you could (of course in 6-bit TN panels you can't).
forgive my ignorance. what it mean FRC?
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Old 6th May 2018, 18:20   #50713  |  Link
MatLz
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Old 6th May 2018, 18:24   #50714  |  Link
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Love it.

You'd be be surprised how many questions I answer by Googling it myself. I sometimes have no idea what they are talking about, but in five minutes, I have an answer.

Will save that link...
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Old 6th May 2018, 18:29   #50715  |  Link
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Yes, I'm applying customized 23hz refresh rate while in 60hz mode.
There is no secret for success with custom resolutions. You are at the mercy of the driver and the compatibility of your equipment. I was able to fix my issue by running DDU and reinstalling the drivers. But others haven't been so fortunate.
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Old 6th May 2018, 18:31   #50716  |  Link
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hahahahahah i love it!
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Old 6th May 2018, 19:32   #50717  |  Link
Kamikaze Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
What about the LG OLED TV's ? B6 , C6

for HDR you need to choose Game Console/HDMI instead PC Input , And choose HDR Standard Picture mode

what is GL ?
I have an E6. With the latest firmware HDR with the PC Icon mode is restricted to a rec709 gamut (reports as bt.2020). I had to downgrade back to 04.30.95 to get back to full bt.2020 (or as full as this OLED can go).
Also in the latest firmware for PC Icon mode, the CMS controls were disabled, couldn't change color gamut between normal/extended/wide, and a few other things that I don't remember.
And I did want HLG and the new tone mapping (no clipping) for HDR game mode, but I'm not going to sacrifice PC input latency and calibration controls for them (and just thinking about having to change icon modes annoys me).


Quote:
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You can use HDR in PC mode but, on the C7 at least, the gamut coverage is much worse. Home theater or similar offers better HDR rendering but also uses 4:2:2 color subsampling.
Have you tried earlier firmware? I know this gamut restriction was added in one of the last firmware updates for the 2016 models, so you might have the option of downgrading to get the full gamut back with PC Icon mode in HDR.
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Old 6th May 2018, 22:21   #50718  |  Link
el Filou
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forgive my ignorance. what it mean FRC?
Sorry, I now realise there are multiple things called FRC. In the context of LCD panels I meant this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate_control
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Old 6th May 2018, 23:30   #50719  |  Link
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It was the stupidest thing lol. I forgot that windows overlay does not work with AMD cards. That was causing the strange noises from my R9 390. Since i have a 10 bit display, i need to use windows exclusive instead.
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Old 7th May 2018, 05:46   #50720  |  Link
JarrettH
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Ever thought though that someone wants FRC explained - in your own words - and not from Google search? It's like selling out your own expertise.

Last edited by JarrettH; 7th May 2018 at 05:50.
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