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Old 27th June 2018, 18:41   #51561  |  Link
huhn
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madVR doesn't do any unnecessary processing by default.

chroma is upscaled everytime and this is unavoidable.
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Old 27th June 2018, 21:31   #51562  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-uk View Post
should I be using madvr if I only ever watch 1080p and 4k, but I need HDR passthrough to TV
Yes. There are some steps that must be done to get the video from the file to your TV and madVR does them in higher quality than anything else.

Chroma upscaling
Conversation to RGB
Dithering to the output bitdepth

All of these steps must happen to get 4K video on a 4K TV.
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Old 28th June 2018, 03:28   #51563  |  Link
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Also madvr's HDR tone mapping is set to get a boost in quality with the next version, likely surpassing many HDR television manufacturers own algorithms. So yes you will want to use madVR for 4K HDR.
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Old 28th June 2018, 16:41   #51564  |  Link
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I couldn't find this covered before so here it is: I'm trying to calibrate a SDR UHD TV to MadVR HDR->SDR conversion by using HCFR and rendering via MADTPG to avoid advancing the HDR patterns manually from disk but it seems MADTPG outputs regular gamma style curve i.e. patterns are not HDR encoded, even though I have HDR->SDR conversion activated in MadVR settings. Is it possible that MADTPG doesn't work with MadVR's own HDR processing options but only when a HDR TV is connected? Are there plans to allow MADTPG generate HDR patterns without a HDR display connected and pass them through HDR->SDR processing? Madshi?
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Old 28th June 2018, 16:48   #51565  |  Link
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HDRT -> SDR conversation is a conversation to "gamma" there is no point in sending HDR pattern and there is no need for a different calibration if your SDR is calibrated.
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Old 28th June 2018, 18:42   #51566  |  Link
mytbyte
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
HDRT -> SDR conversation is a conversation to "gamma" there is no point in sending HDR pattern and there is no need for a different calibration if your SDR is calibrated.
You have the point...in theory. But my SDR gamma is pretty much spot on 2.2 all the way but the measures from manual Masciola's patterns don't track as close to BT.2390 roll off as I'd like so I like to tweak it more while looking at the BT.2390 curve which would be much easier going back and forth with automatic patterns.
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Old 28th June 2018, 19:00   #51567  |  Link
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I am not sure what you mean by "patterns are not HDR encoded", do you mean they do not go through madVR's HDR -> SDR conversion path? How would madTPG know HCFR was sending patches it should treat as HDR? I don't think madTPG looks for flags from software telling it HDR metadata, I don't think there are any standards around metadata attached to test patches so it would have to be something worked out between HCFR (Argyllcms) and madVR.

An option in madTPG to set the input HDR metadata, similar to how we can set the output metadata, would be cool.
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Old 28th June 2018, 19:04   #51568  |  Link
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HDR pattern without HDR are pointless.
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Old 28th June 2018, 19:33   #51569  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I am not sure what you mean by "patterns are not HDR encoded", do you mean they do not go through madVR's HDR -> SDR conversion path? How would madTPG know HCFR was sending patches it should treat as HDR? I don't think madTPG looks for flags from software telling it HDR metadata, I don't think there are any standards around metadata attached to test patches so it would have to be something worked out between HCFR (Argyllcms) and madVR.

An option in madTPG to set the input HDR metadata, similar to how we can set the output metadata, would be cool.
MadTPG suports HDR, at least with Calman. You simply have to specify the metadata for the content (max brightness etc) and the software indicates this to MadTPG and switches to HDR. This has been the case for a while. It’s only useful if calibrating in HDR (passthrough), not if you’re doing a conversion, in which case you want the display to be calibrated to sdr rec-709 or P3 or BT2020 with a power gamma (2.4 recommended) and you don’t need/want MadTPG to be in HDR mode.

HCFR should be supporting this, best would be to ask Zoyd on AVS in the HCFR thread.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:24   #51570  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I am not sure what you mean by "patterns are not HDR encoded", do you mean they do not go through madVR's HDR -> SDR conversion path? How would madTPG know HCFR was sending patches it should treat as HDR? I don't think madTPG looks for flags from software telling it HDR metadata, I don't think there are any standards around metadata attached to test patches so it would have to be something worked out between HCFR (Argyllcms) and madVR.

An option in madTPG to set the input HDR metadata, similar to how we can set the output metadata, would be cool.
Your text in bold, that's what I meant and thought was implemented from the go since it comes from the same author. Viewing the PQ curve tells the whole story, can't tell how close it actually tracks from SDR luminance curve measures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
MadTPG suports HDR, at least with Calman. You simply have to specify the metadata for the content (max brightness etc) and the software indicates this to MadTPG and switches to HDR. This has been the case for a while. It’s only useful if calibrating in HDR (passthrough), not if you’re doing a conversion, in which case you want the display to be calibrated to sdr rec-709 or P3 or BT2020 with a power gamma (2.4 recommended) and you don’t need/want MadTPG to be in HDR mode.

HCFR should be supporting this, best would be to ask Zoyd on AVS in the HCFR thread.
I asked, no reply so far. Why do you think 2.4 gamma is recommended, i.e. why does it matter any if we can select the gamma a display is calibrated to in MadVR?

Last edited by mytbyte; 28th June 2018 at 20:30.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:27   #51571  |  Link
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if your PQ curve is incorrect with a proper SDR calibration than the calibration is not the problem it'S the conversation.

so changing the calibration to get better PQ is the wrong way to look at it what you should look at is the conversation.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:34   #51572  |  Link
mytbyte
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if your PQ curve is incorrect with a proper SDR calibration than the calibration is not the problem it'S the conversation.

so changing the calibration to get better PQ is the wrong way to look at it what you should look at is the conversation.
OK. So you think MadVR's implementation of BT.2390 may be wrong? I found the previous implementation of fixing 100 nits as difuse white didn't quite work. (far from bashing madshi, he's doing a devine job)
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:34   #51573  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
I asked, no reply so far. Why do you think 2.4 gamma is recommended, i.e. why does it matter any if we can select the gamma a display is calibrated to in MadVR?
You can pick any gamma you want with MadVR, but with a standalone player gamma 2.4 is recommended as itís the likely target for the conversion.
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Old 28th June 2018, 20:52   #51574  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
OK. So you think MadVR's implementation of BT.2390 may be wrong? I found the previous implementation of fixing 100 nits as difuse white didn't quite work. (far from bashing madshi, he's doing a devine job)
there is far more than one type of HDR conversation in madVR and most important it is not a "simple" bt 2390 conversation.
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Old 28th June 2018, 21:41   #51575  |  Link
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there is far more than one type of HDR conversation in madVR and most important it is not a "simple" bt 2390 conversation.
@huhn: BT.2390 standardizes the mapping AFAIK, and there are only 2 more options to choose from for tone mapping, "clipping" and "arve curve", the latter I'm not familiar with...and I really don't like the cliping approach even if the rest of the curve is prefect
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Old 28th June 2018, 21:52   #51576  |  Link
huhn
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the "fix too bright..." will have some effect on the gamma curve.
i don't see a way to dynamical reduce luminance without changing the gamma. but obviously not sure how it works.
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Old 28th June 2018, 22:12   #51577  |  Link
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Hello.
I am not sure it is the best place to discuss on evolution request and if there is a more situable/dedicated area, please let me know.

The subject is linked to the syntax used in the profile rules to execute an external program when a profile is activated.
The goal is to launch a programm depending of the aspect ratio AR of the movie.
This program will modify the position of the mask of the screen to fit the aspect ratio of the movie.

Today , with the actual behaviour, is it possible to add a variable in argument with the program to execute. This variable would be , of course, the value of the numerical parameter AR

If it is possible, what is the correct syntax ? for example the line command to execute could be : c:\mask.exe AR or c:\mask.exe Value(AR)
If it not possible today, is there a possibility to implement such behaviour to be able to use some numerical value managed by madVR into an external program ?

Last edited by Polopretress; 28th June 2018 at 22:16.
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Old 28th June 2018, 22:14   #51578  |  Link
mytbyte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the "fix too bright..." will have some effect on the gamma curve.
i don't see a way to dynamical reduce luminance without changing the gamma. but obviously not sure how it works.
Will check this out...I mean, what I'm already getting is probably better than many "HDR" TVs...
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Old 28th June 2018, 22:37   #51579  |  Link
huhn
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it'S clearly intentional and more improvements are planned.
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Old 29th June 2018, 00:57   #51580  |  Link
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Today I took a few hours, the Godfather Blu-ray and played it on the OPPO 103 and MadVR.

I tried every upscaling shader and ended up using NGU AA very high.

Still, the OPPO seemed better with less noise.
But I think I found a way to make both images identical, there's a noise reduction setting on nvidia control panel, if you set it to 30~50% the sharpned grain by MadVR becomes less noticeable and the noise patterns are almost identical.

I know the newest MadVR have denoise feature but since I'm using Jriver and I use BD and UHD BD menus I can't update.
Tried MadMax UHD recently with the newest MadVR and JRiver and there were subtitles only if the pop up menu was open.
(not blaming MadVR, just commenting).

I would like to ask you, since MadVR is doing all the upscaling do you guys use Cinema mode with your display?
I believe Game or Graphics/PC mode would give you a more raw image but since MadVR is dealing with it, is there a point in using it?
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