Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 23rd August 2018, 18:40   #52161  |  Link
Siso
Registered User
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaoshi View Post
No, I have 1070 and I upscale to 2160p then downscale to 1440p.
Is doubling better than image upscaling in your case?
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2018, 18:45   #52162  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
Can you select 12bit with a custom res?
My TV has more banding with >8 bit so I do not want 12 bit, but no, I cannot use 12 bit with custom resolutions. >8 bit is the least important aspect of getting the image to the screen but it should work.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2018, 19:06   #52163  |  Link
foobar2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 17
isn't 12 bit just 8 bit/10 bit adding zero at the end of signal??
foobar2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2018, 19:13   #52164  |  Link
Zaoshi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siso View Post
Is doubling better than image upscaling in your case?
Yes. Doubled 720p is exactly 1440p. Quadrupled 480p becomes 1920p so it has to be scaled down. But due to scaling amount NGU makes it much better than other methods.
On the other hand, 1080p probably doesn't benefit much from NGU (I haven't tested), but I use it anyways.
Zaoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2018, 19:34   #52165  |  Link
Siso
Registered User
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaoshi View Post
Yes. Doubled 720p is exactly 1440p. Quadrupled 480p becomes 1920p so it has to be scaled down. But due to scaling amount NGU makes it much better than other methods.
On the other hand, 1080p probably doesn't benefit much from NGU (I haven't tested), but I use it anyways.
My question was about 1080p movies. In my case I'm with a 29 inch 2560x1080p monitor. So for me image upscaling is OK, I was wondering if doubling will benefit.

Last edited by Siso; 23rd August 2018 at 19:40.
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2018, 20:21   #52166  |  Link
Zaoshi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 14
In high bitrate case Antialias loses fine details. Sharp and Standard are much better in this case.
Jinc produces similar results, but edges aren't sharp.
In the end, unless you pixel hunt in screenshots there is no visible difference.

Edit: I tried to attach screenshots but they got scaled down so no reason to attach them.

Last edited by Zaoshi; 23rd August 2018 at 20:30.
Zaoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2018, 20:29   #52167  |  Link
Siso
Registered User
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaoshi View Post
In high bitrate case Antialias loses fine details. Sharp and Standard are much better in this case.
Jinc produces similar results, but edges aren't sharp.
In the end, unless you pixel hunt in screenshots there is no visible difference.
Attaching images in the forum could take forever to be approved...
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2018, 20:34   #52168  |  Link
Zaoshi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 14
Yeh, images also were scaled down. Uploaded them here instead: https://imgur.com/a/CwI2xO5
Zaoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2018, 21:06   #52169  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by foobar2000 View Post
isn't 12 bit just 8 bit/10 bit adding zero at the end of signal??
I thought so too but maybe not. You want 100% to be the same and 111111110000 is not 100% in 12 bit. There are several ways 8 bit could be converted to 12 bit.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 06:59   #52170  |  Link
x7007
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallengt View Post
Potplayer is using Lav filters.
Not sure what seem to be the problem. Downloading few more HEVC encoded videos to test it now.
Edit: nope potplayer still shows everything NV12
I fixed it by disabling all the checkbox on the 8 bit in Lav Video Filter settings.

It still works fine for 8 bit and works with P10 with potplayer.
x7007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 07:38   #52171  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,631
If you need to disable a checkbox to get P10 LAV is probably converting to P10, which is not helpful. You can get madVR to report any format you want if you force LAV to convert to that format but that does not mean you have that format from the decoded video to madVR. LAV will always pick the native, as decoded, video format if it is an allowed output.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 08:16   #52172  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by veggav View Post
The only way to get 12bits with custom timings is calculating your timings with MadVR and using Custom Resolution Utility to add it to your driver.

Go a few pages back, I've explained how to do it and it worked for me and at least one other user.
Yes, I have been using CRU for some time in order to use the newer drivers and get 12bit, as using the Custom Res in Madvr results in 8bit only.
__________________
Sapphire RX 5700 XT (19.9.2) Ryzen 7 3700x, PRIME X570-Pro, Win 10 x64 (1903), Silverstone LC13B-E, Pioneer SC-LX501 Elite D3, Samsung UE55KS8000, Mission M33i speakers, Kodi Dsplayer 17.6 X64

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 24th August 2018 at 09:39.
oldpainlesskodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 16:31   #52173  |  Link
thighhighs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallengt View Post
Potplayer is using Lav filters.
Not sure what seem to be the problem. Downloading few more HEVC encoded videos to test it now.
Edit: nope potplayer still shows everything NV12
Latest LAV + PP work fine for me, P010 output when needed. But just for test i'm activated video transform filter and get "wrong" NV12 output.
So check PP settings in Filter Control section: Video Transform Filter Usage should be "Disable". Also check filters when you play file (right mouse click - Filters): something wrong if you see here "Built-in Video Codec/Transform".
thighhighs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 17:10   #52174  |  Link
direxx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 8
Hi,

I have a question regarding color space and bit depth. I have a TV with a 10-bit panel and HDR support. I am on Windows 10 1803 with a Radeon RX580 (connected to TV over HDMI 2.0). From what I understand I need to set the output of my graphics card to these options to get HDR support:

- Bit Depth: 10 Bit
- Color Format: YCbCr 4:2:2

In MadVR I set these display properties:

- Native Bit Depth: 10 Bit
- RGB levels: Full PC Levels (0-255)

I know that this setting will result in an additional conversion step. The problem now though is that black levels are totally crushed on my TV, even if I set the RGB level in madVR to "Limited". This cannot be a result from the additional YCbCr conversion, something must be going wrong here. Unfortunately I cannot set the HDMI black level on my TV when the input signal is YCbCr - as far as I understand YCbCr always has the same black level.

The only workaround I found is using RGB Full @8Bit (both in GPU driver and madVR), but then HDR does not work any more. What am I doing wrong?

BTW: Without MadVR I can use the GPU setting "10 Bit with YCbCr 4:2:2" without any blacklevel issues (in e.g. MPC-BE), but I'd like to use madVR for better upscaling and HDR metadata passthrough.


Thanks in advance,
direxx

Last edited by direxx; 24th August 2018 at 17:15.
direxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 17:45   #52175  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by direxx View Post
From what I understand I need to set the output of my graphics card to these options to get HDR support:

- Bit Depth: 10 Bit
- Color Format: YCbCr 4:2:2

If you set your refresh rate to 24Hz, you should be able to get 10 bit Full RGB with HDMI 2.0, which should also fix your black crush issue.
Q-the-STORM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 17:56   #52176  |  Link
direxx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-the-STORM View Post
If you set your refresh rate to 24Hz, you should be able to get 10 bit Full RGB with HDMI 2.0, which should also fix your black crush issue.
Yeah I know, but I shoot 4K videos with 60fps, so unfortunately that won't help me.
direxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 18:10   #52177  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by direxx View Post
Hi,

I have a question regarding color space and bit depth. I have a TV with a 10-bit panel and HDR support. I am on Windows 10 1803 with a Radeon RX580 (connected to TV over HDMI 2.0). From what I understand I need to set the output of my graphics card to these options to get HDR support:

- Bit Depth: 10 Bit
- Color Format: YCbCr 4:2:2

In MadVR I set these display properties:

- Native Bit Depth: 10 Bit
- RGB levels: Full PC Levels (0-255)

I know that this setting will result in an additional conversion step. The problem now though is that black levels are totally crushed on my TV, even if I set the RGB level in madVR to "Limited". This cannot be a result from the additional YCbCr conversion, something must be going wrong here. Unfortunately I cannot set the HDMI black level on my TV when the input signal is YCbCr - as far as I understand YCbCr always has the same black level.

The only workaround I found is using RGB Full @8Bit (both in GPU driver and madVR), but then HDR does not work any more. What am I doing wrong?
For scenario #1, you need the following chain:

(madVR) PC levels (0-255) -> (GPU) Limited Range 16-235 -> (Display) Output as RGB 16-235

It sounds like the display is incorrect.

If you can't get this working, you can output from madVR at 10-bits Full and RGB 8-bit Full from the GPU and still get HDR passthrough. There is another conversion step (10-bits to 8-bits), but chroma upscaling is maintained.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 20:11   #52178  |  Link
zaemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 27
Simple question: if D3D11 and FSE are activated (10-bit), does madVR bypass whatever the GPU is set to (8 or 10-bit for that matter)?
zaemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 20:30   #52179  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,631
No it does not. The GPU will convert it if they are not the same.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2018, 20:40   #52180  |  Link
zaemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
No it does not. The GPU will convert it if they are not the same.


Good to know thanks. Problem is that I have the impression that auto framerate/resolution switching does not always select 10-bit bitdepth. I can set it manually for 60 fps but I donít know if it stays at 10-bit when madVR switches to 24 fps. How to ensure that it always stay at 10-bit?
zaemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.