Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th October 2018, 12:45   #53481  |  Link
SirSwede
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I think this is true on any display. You need to disable any internal processing that converts to 4:2:2, which is what Game Mode is probably doing. On my LG OLED I don't use Game mode, I use PC mode but it is probably the same effect.
So what you are basically saying - as I don't want to misunderstand you - is that when I buy an OLED: If it doesn't have PC Mode, then I want to be using Game Mode?

On the Panasonic TX-55FZ800E, they have arranged it so nicely, that Game Mode can be used on any picture mode.
SirSwede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2018, 13:11   #53482  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Show OSD plz.
Here is my OSD. It seams in order now, but i still get repeated frames when I pause og restart the video, but I guess that is normal.

https://imgur.com/a/rQYyGEO
__________________
My HTPC : i5 6600K | nVidia GTX 1080Ti | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2018, 14:36   #53483  |  Link
XMonarchY
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 487
Any alpha/test builds of madVR Photoshop plugins planned for 2018 or even 2019? They would be SOO awesome! For example, current Photoshop tools that can de-noise well always leave ringing, which in itself, is pretty much noise. MadVR has excellent anti-noise WITH anti-ringing capabilities! I bet madshi could straight up sell madVR Photoshop plugins to Adobe for some $100K+!
__________________
8700K @ 5Ghz | ASUS Z370 Hero X | Corsair 16GB @ 3200Mhz | RTX 2080 Ti @ 2055Mhz | Samsung 970 NVMe 250GB | WD Black 2TB | Corsair AX 850W | LG 32GK850G-B @ 165Hz | Xonar DGX | Windows 10 LTSC 1809
XMonarchY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2018, 15:44   #53484  |  Link
JarrettH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
The way you describe these makes it sound like there are huge differences between the various settings when there isn't. I've looked at all of these and the differences between NGU AA low and medium and Nnedi 16 and 32 are minor at best. NGU AA is a better chroma upscaler performance to quality wise than NNEDI3 is. I liked it but it was never worth it to have it set beyond 32 neurons. I'll happily upload comparisons showing NGU AA medium doing an overall better job than NNEDI3. This is why it was removed after all and I was a big fan of it up until it was removed.
I'd be curious to see NGU AA (on chroma) low vs medium. I'd like to reduce my settings from medium to low for less fan noise

Last edited by JarrettH; 30th October 2018 at 15:49.
JarrettH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2018, 17:47   #53485  |  Link
Alexkral
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
The way you describe these makes it sound like there are huge differences between the various settings when there isn't. I've looked at all of these and the differences between NGU AA low and medium and Nnedi 16 and 32 are minor at best. NGU AA is a better chroma upscaler performance to quality wise than NNEDI3 is. I liked it but it was never worth it to have it set beyond 32 neurons. I'll happily upload comparisons showing NGU AA medium doing an overall better job than NNEDI3. This is why it was removed after all and I was a big fan of it up until it was removed.
This is why it was removed for chroma upscaling but not completely. I think there is a good reason to prefer it for image upscaling in some situations as I explained some posts before.
For chroma upscaling I use Super XBR and I don't think I need anything better.
Alexkral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2018, 19:48   #53486  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
Here is my OSD. It seams in order now, but i still get repeated frames when I pause og restart the video, but I guess that is normal.
Yeah that's looking good, you could reduce the queues unless for some reason you need them that high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexkral View Post
This is why it was removed for chroma upscaling but not completely.
Partially because it used OpenCL and madshi didn't really want it in madVR any more, but NGU AA was created to replace NNEDI3 and although it's not as sharp it does handle edges better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
I'd be curious to see NGU AA (on chroma) low vs medium. I'd like to reduce my settings from medium to low for less fan noise
You wouldn't notice the difference in motion, what you will find is that the color graduation will be smoother due to more sample points? and I find there is less ringing with higher settings.
Take a look along the edges of the folds of the cloak, especially the color graduation of bottom middle fold.

NGU AA low vs Medium Bear in mind this is enlarged 300%.

The jump from NGU AA low to medium is greater than medium to high, personally I prefer medium as my base quality setting but it's relatively minor at the end of the day. I say change it to low and be happy with the lower noise.

Last edited by ryrynz; 30th October 2018 at 21:07.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2018, 20:06   #53487  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,641
there is a shader version of nnedi3.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2018, 20:22   #53488  |  Link
xabregas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Depends on the scene, I've seen some quite large brightness changes on some scenes that are mostly mostly red/pink even without SuperRes enabled. Super-xbr 150 I believe is the brightest of them all.
Yeap, and if you enable adaptativesharpness by any reason it will be even brightest. Super Xbr is good but the brightness is a problem for me as green is not green anymore. everything green looks like sativa or lettuce. Back to nnedi3 again

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDR View Post
It cracks me up that so many people spend so much time debating/arguing about chroma.

Yes, there are differences between algorithms, but gpu usage is more wisely spent in other areas.

I use Lanczos3 and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I've compared all the algorithms extensively. It's the least important of all the scaling settings IMO.

IIRC madshi uses Bicubic 60 (the horror).
Im tempted in returning to Lanczo or Spline with adaptativesharpen enabled. But im not sure.
xabregas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th October 2018, 20:31   #53489  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,641
not what an chroma scaler has to do with adaptive sharpening and you should really read what ryrynz said.

and a chroma scaler will never turn something white is literal impossible.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 08:03   #53490  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
you could reduce the queues unless for some reason you need them that high.
I had my queue sizes at 8, but I got a lot of dropped frames. That went away when I put them higher. Why that is, I don't know.
__________________
My HTPC : i5 6600K | nVidia GTX 1080Ti | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 10:22   #53491  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
I had my queue sizes at 8, but I got a lot of dropped frames. That went away when I put them higher. Why that is, I don't know.
On the contrary, in my setup, lowering queue size to 4 allowed me to use D3D11 native on a GT 1030 without stuttering or dropped frames...it has probably something to do with the gfx card having only 2GB of memory and more UHD frames in advance couldn't fit in there...
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 10:25   #53492  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,140
Might want to try setting the queues back to defaults again, that issue you had may have since been resolved. Only takes a moment to test.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 10:51   #53493  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Might want to try setting the queues back to defaults again, that issue you had may have since been resolved. Only takes a moment to test.
Sorry, failed to mention it's the case with HFR HDR (60 fps) in any scenario/settings. 24 fps, even when set to no downscale to simulate 4K output, smooth motion on and compromise off, it's smooth, albeit marginally (41 ms) with queue value of 16.
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 12:12   #53494  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Might want to try setting the queues back to defaults again, that issue you had may have since been resolved. Only takes a moment to test.
Was that a reply to me? I tested this yesterday with the newest version of MadVr and MPC-HC, so no nothing has been fixed.
__________________
My HTPC : i5 6600K | nVidia GTX 1080Ti | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 12:15   #53495  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
On the contrary, in my setup, lowering queue size to 4 allowed me to use D3D11 native on a GT 1030 without stuttering or dropped frames...it has probably something to do with the gfx card having only 2GB of memory and more UHD frames in advance couldn't fit in there...
Ok, but my card has 8GB of VRAM (GTX 1080).
__________________
My HTPC : i5 6600K | nVidia GTX 1080Ti | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 19:01   #53496  |  Link
Ampallang
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 20
Hi all,

can somebody help me I read plenty of sites of this great thread but unfortunately I am not that deep into all the madvr settings. I used the asmodian profile but I think there is plenty of optimization I can do. I run kodi with ds player and own a gtx 960 4g with a 4.5ghz devil canyon i5 windows 10 and 8gb ram. I am looking forward to Buy a new gpu soon but now where new cards will be released I think maybe it is a better solution to get the optimum out of my system and buy later cheaper an old rx580 or a vege 56/64.

My sources are dvd, blu-ray and uhd mkv I played on a calibrated LG oled. So does someone can provide me a good profile and settings for the gtx 960. I am so far happy with the results but when I read about the card should be able to run this and those my Asus strix won't be able to do this. But I think that will be related to my bad knowledge on topic. So if someone is willing to share his gtx 960 settings with me then I can take maybe a deeper look to understand why something won't work. As you can see I just used the lowest profile from user asmodian but when I read in this thread I have the feeling that I could achieve more and better but I have a wrong profile or so. I am on German region so 24/25/50/60p will be mainly the content to play.

Brgds
Ampa'
Ampallang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 19:49   #53497  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
and a chroma scaler will never turn something white is literal impossible.
Not sure if it's brightness or saturation but I remember from my own comparisons between a 4:4:4 video and the 4:2:0 version processed by madVR, that for example ReconSharp made every red bit stand out more.
Classic scalers that don't take luma into account can't do that of course.
__________________
HTPC: W10 1809, E7400, 1050 Ti, DVB-C, Denon 2310, Panasonic GT60 | Desktop: W10 1809, 4690K, HD 7870, Dell U2713HM | MediaPortal 1/MPC-HC, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 20:37   #53498  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,641
even reconstruct doesn't touch luma.

and to get a white pixel you need that in the first place and the chroma scaler has to remove the color.

and most important xbr 150 not using 150 but 100 instead is the real trick.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 21:25   #53499  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampallang View Post
My sources are dvd, blu-ray and uhd mkv I played on a calibrated LG oled. So does someone can provide me a good profile and settings for the gtx 960. I am so far happy with the results but when I read about the card should be able to run this and those my Asus strix won't be able to do this. But I think that will be related to my bad knowledge on topic. So if someone is willing to share his gtx 960 settings with me then I can take maybe a deeper look to understand why something won't work. As you can see I just used the lowest profile from user asmodian but when I read in this thread I have the feeling that I could achieve more and better but I have a wrong profile or so. I am on German region so 24/25/50/60p will be mainly the content to play.

Brgds
Ampa'
Try these:

4K UHD:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (medium)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Jinc + AR
  • Image doubling: Off
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

1080p:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Off
  • Image doubling: NGU Sharp
  • <-- Luma doubling: high
  • <-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Sharp (high))
  • <-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
  • <-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
  • <-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

DVD:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Off
  • Image doubling: NGU Anti-Alias
  • <-- Luma doubling: high
  • <-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Anti-Alias (high))
  • <-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
  • <-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
  • <-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

You may not agree with the use debanding with those profiles. If you want the image to be sharper, try adding some image enhancements/upscaling refinement.

There is more information in the link in my signature if you are interested. The choice of what to use is mostly up to you.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2018, 21:42   #53500  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
albeit marginally (41 ms) with queue value of 16.
Cutting it terribly close there, you really want it under 40ms to avoid frame drops for 24fps content.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.