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Old 9th June 2017, 10:48   #1  |  Link
Matrix789
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Help muxing different versions of a Blu Ray

Hi everybody,

I have a very noob problem, but that's what I am, so...
I have two copies of the same movie (Rush) in blu ray, an Italian version (English DTS-HD MA, Italian DTS-HD MA) and a US version (English DTS-HD MA, Spanish, DTS).
I compressed the video track from the US version with BD Rebuilder and now I would like to have all the three languages in the same .mkv file.

Below the MediaInfo of the two versions:

Italian version:



USA version:



The problem: The US version is longer: 02:02:54 vs 02:02:16. There are a 26 seconds Paramount intro at the beginning and a 6 seconds motion picture rating at the end, both not present in the Italian version. Even though I trimmed the US version, it still would be 6 seconds longer, so I assume there is a difference in the frame rate (?)

Can you guys please help me with the steps to do with MKVToolNix in order to make everything work properly? I've tried so many times already but I can't figure out how to do it.

Thank you so much.

Last edited by Matrix789; 9th June 2017 at 10:52.
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Old 9th June 2017, 10:57   #2  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Yes, the different framerates are a problem. You have to change the speed of the audio to match the video. First you have to decide what video fps you want. You can change video fps simply with the fps field you see in mkvtoolnix GUI. Then you can either stretch the audio by a factor of 24000/24024 or 24024/24000 (depending on what fps you chose) but it can bring problems because now you have audio gaps or overlapping. Cleaner method is to use e.g. eac3to:
eac3to "Italian.mkv" "2:italian.flac" -24.000 -changeTo23.976
You can also offset the audio with the -XXXXXms or +XXXXXms commands.
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Old 9th June 2017, 11:03   #3  |  Link
Matrix789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
Yes, the different framerates are a problem. You have to change the speed of the audio to match the video. First you have to decide what video fps you want. You can change video fps simply with the fps field you see in mkvtoolnix GUI. Then you can either stretch the audio by a factor of 24000/24024 or 24024/24000 (depending on what fps you chose) but it can bring problems because now you have audio gaps or overlapping. Cleaner method is to use e.g. eac3to:
eac3to "Italian.mkv" "2:italian.flac" -24.000 -changeTo23.976
You can also offset the audio with the -XXXXXms or +XXXXXms commands.
Hi, thank you for your reply.

Since I've already compressed the US video I would like to work on that if possible and on the Spanish audio (and pgs) tracks.

So now I open the video track on MKVToolNix and set the "default duration/FPS" to 24p, is that correct?
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Old 9th June 2017, 11:33   #4  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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You have two choices. Either convert everything to 24 fps or convert everything to 23.976 fps (except the tracks already at 24 or 23.976fps, of course). Either way you have to convert some of the audio tracks. I'm gonna make the decision for you to make it simple: we target 23.976 fps. Since everything in the "US mkv" is already at 23.976 fps we don't have to change any of those tracks. We do have to change everything in the "Italian mkv", though.
First the audio track(s) as explained in my other post:
eac3to "Italian.mkv" "2:italian.flac" -24.000 -changeTo23.976 +26000ms
The new "italian.flac" is now synced to 23.976 fps and should have silence for the 26 seconds Paramount intro.

Now you open mkvtoolnix GUI and drag&drop the "US mkv", "italian.flac" and "Italian.mkv". From the "Italian.mkv" you deactivate all video and audio tracks (we don't need video twice and we have audio separate from "italian.flac"). Then you select the subtitle tracks of the "Italian.mkv" and enter into "Stretch by" field: "24024/24000".

Now comes the most difficult part: we need to account for the different delays. That means you have to find the delay values for the subtitle tracks that came from the Italian.mkv (incl. Italian.flac). That means we have to enter something like "26000" into the delay fields of every subtitle track coming from the Italian mkv. The problematic part is you said "26 seconds Paramount intro" but that is not very exact. We need it way more exact than that. Maybe you mux it once first and then open in a player to see how good the sync values worked and then slightly adjust a second time (or until you have it perfect).
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Old 9th June 2017, 11:48   #5  |  Link
Matrix789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
You have two choices. Either convert everything to 24 fps or convert everything to 23.976 fps (except the tracks already at 24 or 23.976fps, of course). Either way you have to convert some of the audio tracks. I'm gonna make the decision for you to make it simple: we target 23.976 fps. Since everything in the "US mkv" is already at 23.976 fps we don't have to change any of those tracks. We do have to change everything in the "Italian mkv", though.
First the audio track(s) as explained in my other post:
eac3to "Italian.mkv" "2:italian.flac" -24.000 -changeTo23.976 +26000ms
The new "italian.flac" is now synced to 23.976 fps and should have silence for the 26 seconds Paramount intro.

Now you open mkvtoolnix GUI and drag&drop the "US mkv", "italian.flac" and "Italian.mkv". From the "Italian.mkv" you deactivate all video and audio tracks (we don't need video twice and we have audio separate from "italian.flac"). Then you select the subtitle tracks of the "Italian.mkv" and enter into "Stretch by" field: "24024/24000".

Now comes the most difficult part: we need to account for the different delays. That means you have to find the delay values for the subtitle tracks that came from the Italian.mkv (incl. Italian.flac). That means we have to enter something like "26000" into the delay fields of every subtitle track coming from the Italian mkv. The problematic part is you said "26 seconds Paramount intro" but that is not very exact. We need it way more exact than that. Maybe you mux it once first and then open in a player to see how good the sync values worked and then slightly adjust a second time (or until you have it perfect).
Cool, I'm going to follow your steps. In the meantime, do you know why everytime I get an error from eac3to it deletes the source file? I made a mistake writing the CL and it deleted my movie! Thank god I had a copy on my hard drive.

PS: why FLAC and not DTS-HD MA? Does that mean that it will reencode and the final audio track won't be a DTS-HD MA anymore?
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Old 9th June 2017, 11:55   #6  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrix789 View Post
Cool, I'm going to follow your steps. In the meantime, do you know why everytime I get an error from eac3to it deletes the source file? I made a mistake writing the CL and it deleted my movie! Thank god I had a copy on my hard drive.
I have never ever had this happen to me nor did I ever see it happening to someone else. Post your complete command-line and the eac3to log (it creates a log file in the folder you worked in).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrix789 View Post
PS: why FLAC and not DTS-HD MA? Does that mean that it will reencode and the final audio track won't be a DTS-HD MA anymore?
There is no free DTS-HD MA encoder.
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Old 9th June 2017, 13:43   #7  |  Link
Matrix789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
I have never ever had this happen to me nor did I ever see it happening to someone else. Post your complete command-line and the eac3to log (it creates a log file in the folder you worked in).


There is no free DTS-HD MA encoder.
Well, sinceI hoped I didn't have to reencode the audio, I tried to change framerate using KVToolNix and apparently it worked perfectly! Even the 26000ms delay is unbelievably accurate. Do you know where I can find a list of framerate conversion fractions? I only knew 23976/25000 and viceversa, I never would have guessed 24024/24000.

I still have two problems though:
-For some reasons there are no chapters in the US version, so I need to use the Italian ones and change the framerate + delay. Do you know how to do that? I couldn't find a way, neither with MKVToolNix nor with eac3to.
-What do you think should I do with the 26s silence at the beginning? Should I leave it like that? Should I trim the whole movie? Or should I append the sound from the English track (and, therefore, remove the 26000ms delay)?

For the future: I've been very lucky with the delay part but it's not going to be like this every single time. So, is trying changing values until it's synced the only way to do that or is that a better/faster way?

Thank you!
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Old 9th June 2017, 14:43   #8  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrix789 View Post
Do you know where I can find a list of framerate conversion fractions? I only knew 23976/25000 and viceversa, I never would have guessed 24024/24000.
It is simple math. 23.976 fps is inaccurate. Accurate is 24000/1001.

So (24) / (24000/1001) = (24 * 1001) / (24000) = 24024/24000

Table:
24.000 to 23.976: 24024/24000
23.976 to 24.000: 24000/24024
25.000 to 23.976: 25025/24000
23.976 to 25.000: 24000/25025
25.000 to 24.000: 25/24
24.000 to 25.000: 24/25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrix789 View Post
-For some reasons there are no chapters in the US version, so I need to use the Italian ones and change the framerate + delay. Do you know how to do that? I couldn't find a way, neither with MKVToolNix nor with eac3to.
There are special chapter editors for that. I actually use some oold simple program by shon3i, not sure what the currently still developed version is. Maybe someone else can make a recommendation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrix789 View Post
-What do you think should I do with the 26s silence at the beginning? Should I leave it like that? Should I trim the whole movie? Or should I append the sound from the English track (and, therefore, remove the 26000ms delay)?
Is copying over the paramount sound from the US soundtrack worth the work? Only you can decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrix789 View Post
For the future: I've been very lucky with the delay part but it's not going to be like this every single time. So, is trying changing values until it's synced the only way to do that or is that a better/faster way?
In such cases I usually open both files in an editor like VirtualDub, seek to an identical frame and just subtract the timecodes from each other.
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Old 9th June 2017, 15:04   #9  |  Link
Ghitulescu
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I would keep the US version with US sound, and maybe the subtitles.
Reducing the quality of the video in order to fit 2 other soundtracks is a nogo to me. In particular judging the amount of work one should do.

I expect, like any other version for a country that doubles the sound instead of using subtitles that some parts are changed (not originals):
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