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Old 26th November 2018, 13:42   #53721  |  Link
OnkelB
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Hey guys!
I have got an issue with the “automatically detect hard coded black bars” option. It won’t work when using D3D11 automatic (Native) Mode in LAV Filters. I know that it doesn’t work with DXVA2 native mode, but what about D3D11?
The option works when I use copy back mode, but rendering times are getting insane then. Is there any fix for that?
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Old 26th November 2018, 13:55   #53722  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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No fix. Black bar detection is simply not supported for D3D11 native and DXVA2 native.
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Old 26th November 2018, 14:15   #53723  |  Link
OnkelB
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That’s what I thought, but I couldn’t find that info anywhere. Thank you for verifying!
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Old 26th November 2018, 16:20   #53724  |  Link
tony359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
it depends on your system but you are usually fine without it.
Thanks.
How do I find out if I am within the "usual" systems?
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Old 26th November 2018, 20:36   #53725  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tony359 View Post
Thanks.
How do I find out if I am within the "usual" systems?
If you have no problems with HDR, high bit-depth and custom refresh rates, you don't need FSE.
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Old 26th November 2018, 21:17   #53726  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
Madshi, if this is something you could implement, there's a bunch of oled owners who'd be forever grateful! I know you don't have an oled but we could test for you. On my C8, I have to have madVR dither to 5bit to get acceptable near-black gradation.
we've discussed this before, it isnt that OLEDS are particularly bad at near black, I keep hearing this but I dont see it. I have a first gen OLED and I can tell you that it you feed it a good image you get one right back if its setup right.

Where they struggle is poorly mastered compressed material where there is macro blocking at near black. An LCD will have exactly the same problems if they could do perfect black, LCD just masks these areas as its all just a grey mush. My OLED cant fix this, Later panels added a black crush and some extra processing to hide some of this but mine has none of this so I use MADVR, I guess you could say i'm seeing the picture as it is, warts and all.

I do agree however some extra dithering patterns near black would be very useful, especially for TV rips. Some of the netflix, amazon and particularly sky stuff has been so bad over the years even though I was paying for it I sometimes had to download the episode so you I can run it through MADVR and apply some image processing.

BBC are the worst offenders IMHO, there compression is horrific, Peaky blinders has been completely unwatchable at times due to streaming compression artifacts.
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Old 26th November 2018, 21:34   #53727  |  Link
iSeries
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
we've discussed this before, it isnt that OLEDS are particularly bad at near black, I keep hearing this but I dont see it. I have a first gen OLED and I can tell you that it you feed it a good image you get one right back if its setup right.

Where they struggle is poorly mastered compressed material where there is macro blocking at near black. An LCD will have exactly the same problems if they could do perfect black, LCD just masks these areas as its all just a grey mush. My OLED cant fix this, Later panels added a black crush and some extra processing to hide some of this but mine has none of this so I use MADVR, I guess you could say i'm seeing the picture as it is, warts and all.

I do agree however some extra dithering patterns near black would be very useful, especially for TV rips. Some of the netflix, amazon and particularly sky stuff has been so bad over the years even though I was paying for it I sometimes had to download the episode so you I can run it through MADVR and apply some image processing.

BBC are the worst offenders IMHO, there compression is horrific, Peaky blinders has been completely unwatchable at times due to streaming compression artifacts.
Trust me, it's different with 2018 OLEDs. For some reason they are pumping brightness through near black and causing near black artifacts to flash brightly. Pause the video and the flashing stops, press play again and the crazy flashing starts again. This does seem to be a bug because sending the same content as bt.2020 instead of bt.709 and this flashing does not occur. That isn't a viable solution but luckily dithering to 5bit also solves the issue (no flashing). This also was not an issue with the two C7s I had. Or any other TV i've had lol.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57140188

Last edited by iSeries; 26th November 2018 at 21:50.
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Old 26th November 2018, 22:30   #53728  |  Link
tony359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cork_OS View Post
If you have no problems with HDR, high bit-depth and custom refresh rates, you don't need FSE.
No HDR involved but never managed to get custom refresh rates to work - it's on my to do list to investigate better.
What do you mean with "high bit depth" - I mean, I know what that is but how does it apply here?

Thanks
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Old 26th November 2018, 23:59   #53729  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
luckily dithering to 5bit also solves the issue
If that is the solution, the panel manufacturer really ought to have a look at the problem tbh.
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Old 27th November 2018, 00:18   #53730  |  Link
iSeries
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If that is the solution, the panel manufacturer really ought to have a look at the problem tbh.
'Solves' is the wrong word. Effectively reduces the effect would be a better way of saying it. And sending bt.709 content as bt.2020 also effectively reduces the effect...I mean, how does that make sense, other than a processing bug in the TV? But yeah, not great for a so-called 10bit panel. Some dark content is downright ugly on this. Thank the lord madshi for madVR though!
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Old 27th November 2018, 00:48   #53731  |  Link
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What about changing the range a bit at the black end? Does that affect it much?
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Old 27th November 2018, 01:10   #53732  |  Link
iSeries
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What about changing the range a bit at the black end? Does that affect it much?
Custom levels? A tiny bit...but to truly mitigate it as effectively as 5bit dithering I have to raise it too much. Also raising brightness on the TV to around 56 from 50 mitigates it, but 1 click over 51 and black level is raised.

A dithering method that would dither at 5bit or so at the black end and ramp up to output bit depth would be perfect!
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Old 27th November 2018, 09:43   #53733  |  Link
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I made a video about this, otherwise it's hard to imagine what this can look like if you don't have an 2018 LG Oled. There is a ton of noise in the video because of the high ISO recording though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk

And yes dithering to 5-bits completely gets rid of those flashing artifacts you see in the video. Outputting BT.2020 does too in some cases.

What's funny is that most people completely negate this problem and refuse to even run the test video I made. Though the few that did got very similar results.
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Old 27th November 2018, 11:29   #53734  |  Link
iSeries
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Originally Posted by j82k View Post
I made a video about this, otherwise it's hard to imagine what this can look like if you don't have an 2018 LG Oled. There is a ton of noise in the video because of the high ISO recording though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk

And yes dithering to 5-bits completely gets rid of those flashing artifacts you see in the video. Outputting BT.2020 does too in some cases.

What's funny is that most people completely negate this problem and refuse to even run the test video I made. Though the few that did got very similar results.
Did you post that over at avsforum?
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Old 27th November 2018, 12:36   #53735  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
Trust me, it's different with 2018 OLEDs. For some reason they are pumping brightness through near black and causing near black artifacts to flash brightly. Pause the video and the flashing stops, press play again and the crazy flashing starts again. This does seem to be a bug because sending the same content as bt.2020 instead of bt.709 and this flashing does not occur. That isn't a viable solution but luckily dithering to 5bit also solves the issue (no flashing). This also was not an issue with the two C7s I had. Or any other TV i've had lol.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57140188
Sounds like a panel fault to me, there were a number of people who had really bad macro blocking on the 2015 panels who got replacement panels which solved it, have you opened at post of this issue on any forum or contacted LG?

also, post a clip of something that partiularly bad so we can have a look, suggest also moving this dicsussion to the general forum as its not a MADVR issue.
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Old 27th November 2018, 13:43   #53736  |  Link
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Originally Posted by j82k View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl_t3UQ3gAk ... Though the few that did got very similar results.
It's just ridiculous for a >3000 TV. But if bt.2020 isn't affected then it's not a hardware issue. That means you have to you bt.2020 all the time even for HD/SD if it's possible.
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Old 27th November 2018, 14:17   #53737  |  Link
j82k
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Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
Did you post that over at avsforum?
Yes, you must have missed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
Sounds like a panel fault to me, there were a number of people who had really bad macro blocking on the 2015 panels who got replacement panels which solved it, have you opened at post of this issue on any forum or contacted LG?

also, post a clip of something that partiularly bad so we can have a look, suggest also moving this dicsussion to the general forum as its not a MADVR issue.
Here is the clip of the handmaids tale scene and another from pyewacket (blu-ray) which also causes a lot of artifacting.
Both look clean on my monitor and plasma.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15H...XrjiAYo9sjxRao

I've already had a panel replacement and the tech who did that knew about this problem and he also knew that a panel wouln't fix this. Though he still replaced my panel but had no explanation for this issue.
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Old 27th November 2018, 14:21   #53738  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Do remember that we're talking about madVR here, not generic OLED issues.
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Old 27th November 2018, 21:26   #53739  |  Link
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But.. But madVR can surely help!
Every time we go off topic delays the next stable by a week. Plz pray for madshi's free time.
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Old 28th November 2018, 01:18   #53740  |  Link
actarusfleed
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MadVR and color banding

Hi guys,
in those days I've compared my stand alone UHD player (Oppo UDP 203) and my htpc with MadVr.

The quest is what is the best for viewing UHD HDR10 Films.

My HTPC is windows 10 based (64bit), GTX970 (latest drivers), last stable madvr, MPC-HC, last LAV filters.

My display is a Sony VPL-VW520ES 4K projector.

My reference UHD material are the first mins of REVENANT and some other particular scenes taken from VALERIAN.

Obviously MadVR is better from any point of view (detail, colors, noise, ecc.) less one ... COLOR BANDINGS!
Oppo is better only under this point of view.

Oppo send a HDR signal 422@12bit to my projector.

Initially my GPU was setted in RGB@8bit.

That's why I read (a long time ago) that MadVR natively works in RGB domain.
Into MadVr I've set display=8bit
Conversion to HDR > SDR with bt.2084.
Debanding filter to Max
dithering = ordered

The image is stunning but color banding is unfortunately present.

After that I've decided to put my GPU in 422@10bit output.
Setted MadVr with display=10bit
Conversion to HDR > SDR with bt.2084.
Debanding filter to Max
dithering = ordered

Now MadVr reports me "window exlusive mode" =10bit

In this mode the color banding effect is a little bit lower ... but Oppo is still better under this point of view.

Can someone tell me if I'm missing something?
Someone can help me to put my htpc to perform bandings equal to my oppo player?

Thank you so much
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