Settings to archive DV tape collection (PAL)

gurabli · 27th November 2020, 10:27

Hi,

I have about 20+ DV tapes that are no longer use, but they have important family shots on them.
I have all of the content transferred to HDD in avi files. I would like to make a h264 encode of these avi files that I can store, backup and watch later.

I have latest Handbrake installed. I was doing lots of encoding a decade ago using GordianKnot, but those were DVDs to 1 or 2 CD size. Good all times

Anyway, could you please help me to get the optimal settings for the mkv files for the above mentioned purpose in Handbrake?

According to VLC, my avi files are:
DV Video (dvsd)
720x576 25fps
Planar 4:2:0 YUV
Audio araw, Stereo, 48000, 16 bit

And interlaced.

I'm not sure if I should go with H264 or maybe switch to HEVC (h265)?

The aim is to find a best set of options in order to preserve as much detail as possible and to keep everything in a modern codec. Output file size is second importance, but don't want to keep overly large for no obvious benefit. After all, these are SD contents.

Not sure about
- Quality? RR 19? Or Avg Bitrate 2-pass?
- Optimise video
- Filters, especially deinterlacing

Your help is very much appreciated!

I have now something like this:

jmartinr · 28th November 2020, 16:23

Archiving you say? And it's important? Make a copy. If not any choice that looks ok will do.

Having said that, some motion aware temporal denoising might benefit DV-sources. That means taking the avisynth route. Use Cedocida to import your video. And be prepared for a lot of footwork (use the right colorspace, deinterlace, denoise, resize etc.).

VoodooFX · 28th November 2020, 16:49

I wouldn't do a preset deinterlacing and filtering in that software if your aim is "The aim is to find a best set of options in order to preserve as much detail as possible".

Anyway, use CFR instead of VFR, Encoder Tune -> Film, Encoder level -> 4.1, RF (aka CRF) -> 16.

Blue_MiSfit · 28th November 2020, 23:18

This is probably worth a high quality deinterlace (QTGMC) to 50p and archival with H.264. A lot of the benefit of H.265 is only realized at high resolution, so I don't see a reason to use it.

I think a very high quality (CRF 8-12 with a 1 second keyframe interval) x264 encode would do a great job preserving everything in the DV sources, and cutting bitrate down by 50-75% while still being super compatible and performant with any NLE.

Keep the audio as PCM and mux it in MOV.

Ghitulescu · 1st December 2020, 18:24

I edited all my home movies with an editor, converted to DVD at maximum bitrate (75% for 80min cassettes) and so far, 20 years after I am still able to see them (they are Bluray compatible, so they can be put 1:1 to a BDR) - so all my friends and relatives I've sent copies thereof. In any case, should the optics fail, I still have the possibility of repacking them to MKV and use USB. Should also USB be deprecated in near future, well, at least I have a few dozen such sticks ...
Do not archive them on DV, unless this is an extra safety copy (the third one

), tape is very unreliable and easily damageable by a defective/unadjusted mechanism.

From time to time I see people coming with extremely low quality MiniDV movies, like badly needing denoising and stuff - a curious thing considering that that noise occurs only in low light conditions, yet these are filmed in parks or anyway in broadlight. As someone said before, bad denoising, bad deinterlacers, bad filters only destroy the footage, instead of improving it.
There are two solutions - 1. get a proper software (or use the proper tools and filters for eg avisinth or virtualdub), or 2. if you can stand the quality of the footage do nothing just re-encode it (deinterlacing is however required for modern codecs, be aware at least of BFF order).

I see you used detelecine - absurd for PAL and probably for NTSC either (unless there are sort of 24p I've heard of but not seen, PAL camcorders do not have this)
You need - denoising, but not for pixelation, pixelation is an indication of dirty heads (at best) or dropout (worst).
You need - deinterlacing, only for codecs requiring it.
You may need - color calibration (white balance - you should have done it before; white peaks, etc.)

larisk2 · 4th December 2020, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmartinr

Archiving you say? And it's important? Make a copy. If not any choice that looks ok will do.

Having said that, some motion aware temporal denoising might benefit DV-sources. That means taking the avisynth route. Use Cedocida to import your video. And be prepared for a lot of footwork (use the right colorspace, deinterlace, denoise, resize etc.).

I think it's best not to change the frame rate in video files. Every video expert or video editing specialist will confirm that you need to keep the original frame rate in your videos.

benwaggoner · 5th December 2020, 01:04

Leaving them as interlaced would make for faster and smaller encoding than converting to 50p, and would also preserve the option of using better future deinterlacers. And MBAFF is a feature in H.264 but not in newer codecs.

Thank goodness you're using PAL, which is 4:2:0 and not NTSC DV25's horrible 4:1:1 color.

27th November 2020, 10:27	#1 \| Link
gurabli Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 91	Settings to archive DV tape collection (PAL) Hi, I have about 20+ DV tapes that are no longer use, but they have important family shots on them. I have all of the content transferred to HDD in avi files. I would like to make a h264 encode of these avi files that I can store, backup and watch later. I have latest Handbrake installed. I was doing lots of encoding a decade ago using GordianKnot, but those were DVDs to 1 or 2 CD size. Good all times Anyway, could you please help me to get the optimal settings for the mkv files for the above mentioned purpose in Handbrake? According to VLC, my avi files are: DV Video (dvsd) 720x576 25fps Planar 4:2:0 YUV Audio araw, Stereo, 48000, 16 bit And interlaced. I'm not sure if I should go with H264 or maybe switch to HEVC (h265)? The aim is to find a best set of options in order to preserve as much detail as possible and to keep everything in a modern codec. Output file size is second importance, but don't want to keep overly large for no obvious benefit. After all, these are SD contents. Not sure about - Quality? RR 19? Or Avg Bitrate 2-pass? - Optimise video - Filters, especially deinterlacing Your help is very much appreciated! I have now something like this: __________________ I'm working so hard recently that I don't even have time for drinking...

28th November 2020, 16:23	#2 \| Link
jmartinr Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Enschede, NL Posts: 301	Archiving you say? And it's important? Make a copy. If not any choice that looks ok will do. Having said that, some motion aware temporal denoising might benefit DV-sources. That means taking the avisynth route. Use Cedocida to import your video. And be prepared for a lot of footwork (use the right colorspace, deinterlace, denoise, resize etc.). __________________ Roelofs Coaching

1st December 2020, 18:24	#5 \| Link
Ghitulescu Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 5,769	I edited all my home movies with an editor, converted to DVD at maximum bitrate (75% for 80min cassettes) and so far, 20 years after I am still able to see them (they are Bluray compatible, so they can be put 1:1 to a BDR) - so all my friends and relatives I've sent copies thereof. In any case, should the optics fail, I still have the possibility of repacking them to MKV and use USB. Should also USB be deprecated in near future, well, at least I have a few dozen such sticks ... Do not archive them on DV, unless this is an extra safety copy (the third one ), tape is very unreliable and easily damageable by a defective/unadjusted mechanism. From time to time I see people coming with extremely low quality MiniDV movies, like badly needing denoising and stuff - a curious thing considering that that noise occurs only in low light conditions, yet these are filmed in parks or anyway in broadlight. As someone said before, bad denoising, bad deinterlacers, bad filters only destroy the footage, instead of improving it. There are two solutions - 1. get a proper software (or use the proper tools and filters for eg avisinth or virtualdub), or 2. if you can stand the quality of the footage do nothing just re-encode it (deinterlacing is however required for modern codecs, be aware at least of BFF order). I see you used detelecine - absurd for PAL and probably for NTSC either (unless there are sort of 24p I've heard of but not seen, PAL camcorders do not have this) You need - denoising, but not for pixelation, pixelation is an indication of dirty heads (at best) or dropout (worst). You need - deinterlacing, only for codecs requiring it. You may need - color calibration (white balance - you should have done it before; white peaks, etc.) __________________ Born in the USB (not USA) Last edited by Ghitulescu; 1st December 2020 at 18:29.

5th December 2020, 01:04	#7 \| Link
benwaggoner Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,771	Leaving them as interlaced would make for faster and smaller encoding than converting to 50p, and would also preserve the option of using better future deinterlacers. And MBAFF is a feature in H.264 but not in newer codecs. Thank goodness you're using PAL, which is 4:2:0 and not NTSC DV25's horrible 4:1:1 color. __________________ Ben Waggoner Principal Video Specialist, Amazon Prime Video My Compression Book

28th November 2020, 16:49	#3 \| Link
VoodooFX Banana User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 990	I wouldn't do a preset deinterlacing and filtering in that software if your aim is "The aim is to find a best set of options in order to preserve as much detail as possible". Anyway, use CFR instead of VFR, Encoder Tune -> Film, Encoder level -> 4.1, RF (aka CRF) -> 16.

28th November 2020, 23:18	#4 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit Derek Prestegard IRL Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,989	This is probably worth a high quality deinterlace (QTGMC) to 50p and archival with H.264. A lot of the benefit of H.265 is only realized at high resolution, so I don't see a reason to use it. I think a very high quality (CRF 8-12 with a 1 second keyframe interval) x264 encode would do a great job preserving everything in the DV sources, and cutting bitrate down by 50-75% while still being super compatible and performant with any NLE. Keep the audio as PCM and mux it in MOV.